I was just thinkin'...The 1997 Special Edition must be the definitive version.
Lucas says he wanted to add more stuff to the originals but didn't have the technology in the 80s (ie. the Jabba scene).
He added better sound and tweaked effects to the THX version in the early 90s...but still didn't have the technology to add the stuff that he wanted.
So 1997, he finally makes the definitve version...the one he always wanted to make.
BUT WAIT! He changed his mind about what he always wanted to make...because now he thinks it should include things like Jango's voice and a shot of Naboo...Naboo!!! Gungans in my precious OT???!!! Gungans and Ewoks seconds away from each other...Lucas you knob!!! Who cares about continuity...will the viewer be totally lost if Boba's voice is different, or if the emperor looks/sounds different?
The '04 version should just be looked at as a "remix" of the Star Wars Special Edition trilogy, and nothing more. It is NOT the "definitive" version...because he already made the "definitve" version...All it is is just Lucas being an anally retentive weirdo.
...still prefer the original releases though, myslelf.
And when Ep. I comes out w/ the digital Yoda, I won't buy that it's the definitve verision...they had more than enough technology to do a digital Yoda when Ep. I came out (they even had one in there at the end)...they just didn't do it (for various reasons)...again that's just Lucas remixing and being an anal nut case.
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Last edited by EPIIIBITES on Aug 29th, 2006 at 01:59 AM
Where are you getting this stuff from? Are you watching something I'm not?
George Lucas says: "I wanted to fix the film and have it be completed"
How much more clear could he possibly be?
The intro says: "...the way he always meant it to be seen"
And it's not just a press thing...This is just Lucas announcing what it's all about. It's not too hard to believe that it just is what it is...at the time, that was the final, complete, "definitve" version of Star Wars.
Going back and making more changes isn't about making a more definitve version...it's about being an obsesive freak.
The SE is the definitive version...there's nothing you could say that could argue that...no matter how much you want the DVD versions or the original theatrical versions to be the definitve verions...they're just not.
Agreed...kinda. They are his films...but I have a strange notion about art that there should be some consideration for the audience. Not something he has to do...but something I think he ought to do as an artist...Leave it alone!
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Last edited by EPIIIBITES on Aug 31st, 2006 at 03:55 AM
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK
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Where do I get it from? Hmm, lemme see, the bit where he says, in regards as to making the Special Edition:
Films are never completed, they are only abandoned
GL clearly says he never thinks the work is finished. He only gets it as good as he can at the time. That is his belief, that a film can always be tinkered with.
He says it very, very plainly indeed, making it a primary point. Listen more carefully in future.
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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
I read that he is a strong beiever in things evolving, including his movies. One of the most important things to him is that these movies must be "timeless", so if he needs to make continuous changes, it's completely his business.... if people but them anyway then who's to tell him to stop. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion and thank goodness for free will allowing us to buy the movies 1000 times if we so desire. He's not putting a gun to our heads.... just giving us more options.
__________________ "I feel lethal, on the verge of frenzy."
Relax dude. I just don't think we're watching the same thing...I have an extra making of tape from an SE Trilogy set...and my quote about him wanting to "complete" the film goes directly against your quote about him saying films are never "complete"...which I don't see on what I'm watching...so I could say the same thing to you about listening to what he's saying...It seems like our pal George is a bit confused...
...and that's my point...regardless of what he says (keeping in mind he's an anal nut), the SE version is the definitive version...for the reasons he set out to make it. It's adverstised like that...his intentions seemed to be aimed towards that...so him saying otherwise is just George being wishy-washy.
Most artists, including myslef, would agree that a work is never finished...that doesn't mean that at one point you won't say "My work is complete"...meaning, "I have made changes to it that I've always wanted to make in completing my original vision, and have now offered up what I wanted to have in the first place."
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Last edited by EPIIIBITES on Sep 1st, 2006 at 01:50 AM
The definitive Star Wars will always be the last revised version that comes out. Otherwise, GL would never have made the changes in the 1st place. Right now, that would be the '04 DVD releases, but that might change seeing as how they are going 3D and you know GL won't rerelease them without at least some changes.
It's not about tinkering...this is what I'm saying from my very first post...Tinkering is just "remixing"...
This sums it all up:
With the SE, George Lucas SET OUT to make the definitive version of the trilogy. Now, whether or not any changes have been made after that is irrelevant. What is releveant is what the SE stands for...the making of the definitve version. It's the first time he attempted to do it, and sure enough (since we have the SE films) he finished doing it.
He completed his films that he wanted to originally make. That's what the SE was for and what he himself said he had an agenda for and said he completed.
He said he wanted to "fix" the film...and he did. Anything after that point is, indeed, tinkering...but not to fixing. How can you fix something that's already fixed? You don't. BUT, you can be an obsessive freak and tamper with stuff...that's all he's doing...and will continue to do.
I don't know how much more plainly I can put it. No, I'm not against changes. No, I'm not against the SE. No, I'm not against George being able to do what he wants with his own art...People making those comments are obviously totally missing the point. I'm just putting forth a solid argument for the SE being the definitve version of the Star Wars films...yes, even if he'd admit it or not...that's EXACTLY what I'm saying! Even if George said the DVD versions are the definitve versions I'd say..."They're absolutley not...you already set out to make what you were gonna consider to be the definitive versions...now you're just having second thoughts." That's my point.
BTW DeVi| D0do...Is that a homemade sig I'm guessing?...really cool. Never stopped to look at it...real dark and trippy.
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Last edited by EPIIIBITES on Sep 1st, 2006 at 07:25 AM
Heh, just something I did in Photoshop a while ago using a google search image...
I see what you're saying... though I'd still argue that the 'remixing' he does is still fixing the films. When he switches the colour of Luke's saber on the Falcon (which he bloody well better do) it will be fixed.
And surely any version he releases is more 'definitive' than the last. People change their minds... 'Definitive' as in "being a final or conclusive settlement" will always mean the latest release. And because we know that he will never stop releasing different versions, the term should really never be used. The fact that he did in reference to the SE, in my opinion, simply meant it was the definitive version at that point in time.
At any rate, I don't really see why it matters, lol.
Registered: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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The 97 promise of it being his definitive vision was just a marketing ploy. Its a natural claim to make to sell the sucker. There was a backlash, and so he mentions nothing of continued changes in the 04 dvds. I myself ASKED THE GUY in person at a SC q and a (prior to the 04 release) whether he'd continue updating them. I knew he would lie, and indeed he did and feigned ignorance, claiming he already did it for the 97's. Why? Cause he knows if he answers that question honestly then fanboys in the audotorium would jump online and spill the beans and he'd get harrased for it. Sure enough seven months later: changes.
There will be more changes. I do believe eventually he will stop. I do believe that that will come with the 2007 re-release. But regardless of what marketting promised in 97, or what Lucas claimed in his promotional interviews to sell the trilogy in 97 (and more so BECAUSE of them), they mean nothing. Aside from the 97 videos, the 97 special edition is as dead and buried as the OOT was (until now). The 97 versions will be the most dead and forgotten of them all. Someday the 2004 versionswill be too, tomake probable way for the 2007 versions.
Films are never finished, only abandoned. Lucas is one of the few filmmakers with the power and luxury to make that sentiment true of his own work. It doesnt mean he will tinker forever. It means that someday he will stop. He will "abandon" it. When? Who knows? I say 2007. Just a hunch. Listen to his commentaries, listen to his interviews, put the pieces together. And try not to be an idiot about some old interviews from 97. He's a PR guy. He says what he can get away with at the time. Use your brain. Please.
And I too prefer the changes. I hope he makes more. To all six movies. They arent perfect. None of the six movies are perfect. They never will be. But I love them with all my heart. And no, he didnt rape your childhood (hate when fanny's say that). What kind of deprived childhood did youhave if thats the case?
Cant wait to see the 2007 changes. There. And by the way serving continuity is one of the basic rules of film. The changes provide continuity. Nothing more, nothing less. I like some continuity in my movies. I like my movies to be good. Anyone else like their movies to be good?
First of all, you have no idea how many Lucas commentaries and interviews I've read and heard...My point is that I don't trust what he himslef says...I'm giving an argument apart from what he says...I don't think he himself is capable of saying what the definitve version is because of his utter madness.
According to your (and others') logic, they're wouldn't be anything wrong with George going back in 2007 and making Mos Eisly look LESS busy than the 97 version (for whatever reason). You would argue that a release with changes to "previous changes" would now be the definitive version. I could say that's absolutely not the case.
As far as continuity goes, George attempted to make continuity in 97 because he had the foresight to include Coruscant in the SE films (knowing he would have it in the PT). Now, he's changing his mind on his continuity efforst as well! If he really wanted to have Naboo in his original vision he could have added Naboo. We hadn't seen Coruscant before...nor had we seen Naboo...so it's not a matter of not being ready or something like that. It's a conscious decision he made. Now going back on the decision (like he did in 04) does NOT make it definitve..it makes it tinkering. THAT's my point.
There was always supposed to be a central system for the Empire (Coruscant)... we all knew that. That's why it was put into the SE. To show the crumbling of the Empire at its core. Naboo didn't even exist then. We knew nothing about it, Lucas probably knew nothing about it. To have it show up in the SE would have just been too WTF?!?... So, yes, it is a matter of not being ready.
Anyway, I still disagree with your definition of 'definitive'. By definition it means the absolute FINAL version.
Aug 29th, 2006 01:48 AM
