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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Episode IV, V & VI » He will join us or die


He will join us or die
Started by: coolmovies

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coolmovies
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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: United Kingdom


 

He will join us or die

vader said to the Emperor luke will join us or die (ESB) was he laying to him ?? i mean he didnt kill him did he?

Old Post Aug 6th, 2009 07:23 PM
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Moriarty
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well sometimes sith lie. i mean its not because they are bad people, its just that they are misunderstood.

oh and btw vader and sideous eventually were at the point where he would join them or die, at the end of rotj


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Old Post Aug 6th, 2009 07:56 PM
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Jaeh
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he didn't kill him yet. If it came to the point when he has too, he will.


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Old Post Aug 7th, 2009 01:01 AM
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K-Dog
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If I remember the fighting between Luke and Vader correctly, while there was a lot of yaking and not enough fighting going on, at one point Luke was blowing on about not wanting to fight and how there was still good beneath the black mask of you-know-who. It was not sinking into that thick skull of Vader, cuz he took a nice swing back at Luke with the red saber. Luke had to re-activate his saber and block it or else he would have been killed. So I think that Vader was willing to chop down his offspring just like he choked the kid's mother and how he mowed through several younglings.
It does take one to know one though, as he had his appendages removed by Dooku/Obi Wan himself.


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Old Post Aug 7th, 2009 03:23 PM
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DarthLazious
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Registered: Oct 2004
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ~:Mr.Anderson:~
well sometimes sith lie. i mean its not because they are bad

oh and btw vader and sideous eventually were at the point where he would join them or die, at the end of rotj


That sounds about right.

Old Post Aug 7th, 2009 06:58 PM
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Rogue Jedi
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by K-Dog
If I remember the fighting between Luke and Vader correctly, while there was a lot of yaking and not enough fighting going on, at one point Luke was blowing on about not wanting to fight and how there was still good beneath the black mask of you-know-who. It was not sinking into that thick skull of Vader, cuz he took a nice swing back at Luke with the red saber. Luke had to re-activate his saber and block it or else he would have been killed. So I think that Vader was willing to chop down his offspring just like he choked the kid's mother and how he mowed through several younglings.
It does take one to know one though, as he had his appendages removed by Dooku/Obi Wan himself.
Or maybe Vader saw that Luke was not to be turned, so decided to kill him to save his own position as Palpatine's right hand.


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Old Post Aug 8th, 2009 05:56 AM
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K-Dog
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Watching ESB last night, when Vader was talking to the Emperor via hologram, the Emperor was the one who told Vader that young skywalker must not become a Jedi. DV then brought up the idea that if he could instead be turned to the darkside, he would become a powerful ally. I thought that was interesting because the Emperor quickly agreed with him, even though I'm assuming they both knew there could only be 2 Sith. Hmm, it seems that a potential conflict of who would be the 2 of the potential 3 was created at that point.


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Old Post Aug 12th, 2009 01:46 PM
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Placidity
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by K-Dog
Watching ESB last night, when Vader was talking to the Emperor via hologram, the Emperor was the one who told Vader that young skywalker must not become a Jedi. DV then brought up the idea that if he could instead be turned to the darkside, he would become a powerful ally. I thought that was interesting because the Emperor quickly agreed with him, even though I'm assuming they both knew there could only be 2 Sith. Hmm, it seems that a potential conflict of who would be the 2 of the potential 3 was created at that point.


It has never been explained in movie canon that there can only be two nor why. Its also possible that Sidious didn't teach him that. And of course, Sidious would've taken up Luke as his new apprentice. Vader already lost his potential at that point.

On the other hand, Vader did say he could overthrow Sidious in Ep III, I wonder if he meant it.


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Old Post Aug 13th, 2009 06:32 AM
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Lek Kuen
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Placidity
It has never been explained in movie canon that there can only be two nor why. Its also possible that Sidious didn't teach him that. And of course, Sidious would've taken up Luke as his new apprentice. Vader already lost his potential at that point.

On the other hand, Vader did say he could overthrow Sidious in Ep III, I wonder if he meant it.

I think Vader planned on hm and Luke taking over


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Old Post Aug 19th, 2009 10:37 PM
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Scarlet Fox
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Yeah Vader wanted Luke by his side. Thats how the sith are o.o always killing thier masters in order to BE the master. And Vader could have his own son as his apprentice.


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Old Post Aug 19th, 2009 11:42 PM
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DarthLazious
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That would have been interesting to see.


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Old Post Aug 20th, 2009 02:03 PM
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coolmovies
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Registered: Jul 2006
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He wanted to save his son from falling

Darth Vader Join me.......... and we will rule the galaxcy as father and son

Old Post Aug 24th, 2009 07:54 PM
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Kickballjedi
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Registered: Apr 2013
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Placidity
It has never been explained in movie canon that there can only be two nor why. Its also possible that Sidious didn't teach him that. And of course, Sidious would've taken up Luke as his new apprentice. Vader already lost his potential at that point.

On the other hand, Vader did say he could overthrow Sidious in Ep III, I wonder if he meant it.



I was just digging through old posts and found this.

It was explained in Episode 1 that there are always 2 only, a master and an apprentice. The interaction between Sidius and Vader in ESB is just both of them realizing Luke's potential- to the Emperor a chance for a new, more powerful apprentice to strengthen the Empire. To Vader- a strong apprentice to help him overthrow the Emperor (which he couldn't do alone) and/or a chance to rule with his son at his side.

I believe once Vader discovered Luke was his son, it threw his mindless devotion to the Dark Side out of whack. We hear Sidius question Vader's feelings a few times in RoTJ. And I think Anakin's faith in his master finally cracks completely when he learns Luke has a sister then sees his son suffering from the Emperor's force lightning. That's too much for any Father to take.

Old Post Jun 28th, 2013 01:52 PM
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Vensai
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Registered: Feb 2013
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Well, at the end of RoTJ, Sidious was killing Luke after he refused to join the dark side. Not sure if Vader would have went through with the threat though.


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Old Post Jun 29th, 2013 05:30 AM
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queeq
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And we will never know.


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Old Post Jul 9th, 2013 07:52 AM
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Sadako of Girth
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Placidity
It has never been explained in movie canon that there can only be two nor why. Its also possible that Sidious didn't teach him that. And of course, Sidious would've taken up Luke as his new apprentice. Vader already lost his potential at that point.

On the other hand, Vader did say he could overthrow Sidious in Ep III, I wonder if he meant it.


"Always two there are, a master and an apprentice." Yoda, TPM

And Vaders offer to rule the galaxy as father and son in ESB is two again.

You're right too I think with Palpatine seeing Vader as damaged goods/disposable when new potential students come along..he was rescued and salvaged, rebuilt etc, but I definitely got the impression that Palpatine (who killed his own master) would not have blinked in replacing Vader with Luke if he saw the genetic potential in him to be a pre-damage Anakin.


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Old Post Jul 12th, 2013 03:51 PM
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queeq
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Me neither.


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Old Post Jul 14th, 2013 04:35 PM
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Vensai
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
"Always two there are, a master and an apprentice." Yoda, TPM

And Vaders offer to rule the galaxy as father and son in ESB is two again.

You're right too I think with Palpatine seeing Vader as damaged goods/disposable when new potential students come along..he was rescued and salvaged, rebuilt etc, but I definitely got the impression that Palpatine (who killed his own master) would not have blinked in replacing Vader with Luke if he saw the genetic potential in him to be a pre-damage Anakin.

Probably. Vader never managed to attain his former power in RoTS.


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Old Post Aug 24th, 2013 12:10 AM
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