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Stealth Agent
Screen Writer
Registered: May 2004
Location:
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Do the newr jedi's know about not loving and marrying
I thought the old council didnt marry because it makes them weak and vulnerable. But Doesn't Luke marry mara Jade? Does he just not know about the old rules or just not care?
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Nov 10th, 2004 09:38 PM |
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darthcraka
Dark Side Force Initiate
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Intrepid
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luke changed the rules when he rebuilt the order to help populate the order quiker to have jedi reproduce withing the order
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Nov 10th, 2004 10:42 PM |
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chilled monkey
Senior Member
Registered: Mar 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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At one point, Luke is talking to two of his students and he mentions that he isn't sure if Jedi were allowed to have relationships or not. So he does not know for certain. Mind you, even if he did know, he would have gone through with his marriage to Mara anyway.
Personally I think that Lucas made a mistake with the 'Jedi must be celibate' rule.
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Nov 11th, 2004 10:53 AM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UKCo-Admin
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No he didn't. That rule is essential to the way the Jedi, and the Dark Side, work. Attachment means fear means anger means hate- it is forbidden for GOOD REASON.
That the EU flees from this is a negative point to it, as far as I am concerned. They have tried to say "Oh, Luke introduces new rules..." as if the old ones were just arbitrary. They are not! All changing that rule will produce is a host of new Dark Siders, unless you are fundamentally changing GL's world.
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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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Nov 11th, 2004 11:42 AM |
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chilled monkey
Senior Member
Registered: Mar 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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I see your point. All I'm saying is if I was GL, I would not have included it. Love is not a weakness and it is not evil.
Besides it was well established before AotC that Jedi were allowed to have relationships. Not just when Luke rebuilt them, but in the Old Republic. Heck, there's even a comic in which Ki-Adi-Mundi has a wife and daughter.
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Nov 11th, 2004 09:01 PM |
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Darth_Nefarus
Redi Knight
Registered: Jul 2004
Location: United States
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Luke's Jedi were allowed to marry to yes, re-populate, but also because Luke knew better than most if your family was teaching you about the philosophies and ways of the Jedi, it would have been easier had family been teaching it. Luke's family becomes very powerful and that's why his order is so great. Luke's Jedi understand the true force, which is love and other emotion. It's how you react to the emotions that matter.
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"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant, next to the power of the force."
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Nov 12th, 2004 05:16 AM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UKCo-Admin
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Err, that's just made-up rubbish, there is no 'true force' involved. And the EU's back story about Mundi and so forth are simply also in opposition to GL's world- he was already laying out these points in TPM.
He does NOT say Love is a weakness, or evil, at any point. He even says that Jedi are encouraged to Love. But attachment is fatal to a Jedi- in fact worse than fatal, because it is other people that will die because of it. And his logic, in the Universe he has created, is impeccable. if Fear causes you to go to the Dark Side... falling in love with somone is out. Because if you don't fear to lose that person, you're not really in love. The two cannot be reconciled.
So the sort of interpersonal relationship where your love is focussed on one person is totally forbidden for very good reason, as Anakin is demonstrating. No matter what support or guidance you have, a Jedi must not form an attachment. That is an absolute fundamental GL rule and the EU is only creating a continuity gulf by ignoring that, or treating it is trivial when it is in fact essential.
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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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Nov 12th, 2004 11:55 AM |
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Stealth Agent
Screen Writer
Registered: May 2004
Location:
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Yeah ive read some Eu books and comics and i was always curious.
But if Luke loves and has an attatchement and he doesnt turn evil then doesnt that mean its all good.
Also i heard somewhere that Luke is destined to turn to the dark side or something is that true?
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Nov 13th, 2004 11:18 PM |
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kanis
L dragon
Registered: Apr 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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 Most of the jedi's in the new jedi order are married and have children it may have been a taboo in the old days but not now.
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The dragon lord cometh
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Nov 29th, 2004 12:26 PM |
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Ben-Kenobi
Senior Member
Registered: Oct 2004
Location:
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A Little Off Subject But In Jedi Trial Book Master Halcyion Has A Son And I Was Wondering If he Was in Any of Those Books.
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Dec 5th, 2004 07:03 AM |
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Zachara
Lady Knight
Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Canada
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Okay, let's start with the base here...
ahem...(puts glasses on and takes out a pointer stick)
Observe the Jedi Code of the Old Order:
"There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no choas, there is harmony.
Thereis no death, there is the force."
This is the base on which the Old Jedi Order of the Old Republic built itself. A true Jedi, in the eyes of the Order, is one who follows this Code thoughtout the entire of their life and teachs others in its way. A true Jedi is clam, divoide of all emotion, and wise in many different ways; a being at one with the Force. But if the way of the Jeid is so right, then why are there so many sceptical notions told about it? The Code may be hard to follow, but its even harder to understand.
"There is no emotion, there is peace."
This is one of the most argued notions of the Code. True, certain emotions lead to the suffering of many things; all life itsel can be effected by them, but there are positive emotions in existance that shouldn't be ignored.
To properly explain this in my own opinion, it should be assumed that the original Jedi Order was very cautious. Perhaps even over cautious to the teachings of inemotion (hope that's a word). It is this over caution which has lead to the belief that any emotion has the chance of turning ones intention or intentions into one, or many, disasters.
A sentient being who is exidingly large and strong base in the Force is presumed to have a equally large destiny to behold; one that could change the very state of the galaxy (or world, lmao). This is, in my opinion, the reason behind the emotionless Jedi figure. If those who could change the state of the galaxy have any chance of turning to follow a path of power and sadistic principals, they should be halted nd diviod of impure purpose or purposes. Such is the belief of the Old Jedi.
Fortunately, for the Star Wars universe, there are some who oppose this belief in inemotion. Anyone who is partially alive knows that being divoide of emotion will condem a person to a profound sadness.
If the emotions such as love and friendship are so wrong, then where do the ethics and morals of a person come from? If a Jedi is supposed to diviode of all emotion, then why do so many of them show compasion and pity towards others when they juge a situation?
Yet so many Jedi Masters would teach, for one example, that love is one of the most dangerous emotions next to fear; for, in te words of Yoda, "fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering." To some, this would be reason, since there are very few loves in the universe that do not cause harm to one's feelings after a prolonged preiode of time to them and , to most, love is believed to be connected directly with passion.
Passion itslef is a greed that is negative, but it can be controled. Teaching one to love without passion will not lead them a sentient to corruption. In true fact, love is one of the few emotions that can save one who is already straying down a dark path. Think about it, why did Anikin kill the emporer? To save his son, the last person other than Liea that he actually loved. And why do the Jedi still exist in the first place in the New Republic? Because Anikin fell in love with Padme and they had kids who are now rebuilding the Jedi.
True, there are very few passionless loves loves that exist and falling in love is a tempest for argument and pain later on, but if one is strong enough, love can be ageless and passionless.
Based on what I said jsut now, we can assume the following: Emotions with passion = bad  . Emotions with control over passion = good  . It is less likely that one should trun to a dark path if they understand their emotions, instead of blocking them and being told they are to be avoided at all costs.
Right, now! (takes glasses off and puts the pointer away) That was a long post!  
I hope someone reasponds to this with another opinion. Now let's get back to our nerd lives people!
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"To Yoda's English class, welcome you, do I. Put subject before verb, fail this class will you." *pokes with small cane* "Listening to me , you are not. Unwise of you, that is. For a detention with Lady Knight Zachara, will you earn. And survive that, you might not."
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Dec 5th, 2004 09:51 PM |
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Darth_Nefarus
Redi Knight
Registered: Jul 2004
Location: United States
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All I meant by the true force, is realizing that as long as you can not let your emotions get the better of you, there is nothing to stop you from being married.
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"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant, next to the power of the force."
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Dec 6th, 2004 06:50 AM |
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choppaheadmf
Junior Member
Registered: Aug 2004
Location: United States
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I have a response. Whos world is this, it is GL's what he says goes reguardless of what another author writes. He says it is not allowed it is not allowed.
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Jan 6th, 2005 06:56 PM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UKCo-Admin
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Ineedy so, and his word overwrites any other idea about this subject at all.
Personalised love causes attachment which is fatal to a Jedi, and no emotional babble will change that.
The rule is there with good reason, and changing it invites only disaster.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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Jan 6th, 2005 11:37 PM |
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Areora
Member
Registered: Jan 2005
Location: United States
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The Jedi do not restrict marrage just love. AHA! a loophole!
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Jan 17th, 2005 07:03 PM |
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The Rover
Registered: May 2004
Location: Canada
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I hate George Lucas. He ruins EVERYTHING. He should have just left the "Prequels" alone......
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Sigs are for noobz.
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Jan 17th, 2005 07:19 PM |
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Julie
The Student
Registered: Aug 2001
Location: New Jersey
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EU ...someone mentioned HAlycon's son Valin....I don't think there's a book specifically about him but there are books about one of his descendants....er I think (I, Jedi)??? someone correct me if I'm wrong
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May the force be with you
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Jan 18th, 2005 02:47 AM |
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atheist
A Man of Reason
Registered: Jun 2004
Location: United States
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Luke changes the rules. He doesnt know all of the old rules anyway. It is obvious that the way of teaching jedi in the old republic was the wrong way. The jedi fail, Anakin turns evil, no one listens to Qui-Gon about following what the Force tells you and not just doing something because yoda said to. There is an ep.3 spoiler around where yoda says the twins must not be trained until the living force brings them to him or kenobi. Luke is a student of the living force and is much like qui-gon, a servant of the Force not Yoda or the council!
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Jan 19th, 2005 01:15 AM |
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Ushgarak
Paladin
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UKCo-Admin
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THAT rule he should not change, GL himself has said it is vitally important, and the films are the demonstration of WHY it is important!
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
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Jan 19th, 2005 01:34 AM |
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Darth_Nefarus
Redi Knight
Registered: Jul 2004
Location: United States
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Yes, but people have already written their books so what can you do?
Get Lucas to make more STAR WARS movies perhaps.....
__________________
"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant, next to the power of the force."
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Jan 19th, 2005 05:52 AM |
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