Darth Bane: This was my lesson - two Sith should there be, no more. One holding power, one desiring it. You defy my teachings!
Darth Krayt: I have improved on it! Instead of two there is now only one - the Sith Order itself. I have re-created the Sith, Lord Bane, as yo once did. I have given it a purpose. For what use is power without one?
Darth Bane: Power is its own purpose. To share it is to dilute it. You delude yourself, pretender -- Your order will yet turn on itself and you.
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A conflict of Sith philosophies from one Dark Lord to another. But which idea do you think is most fitting of the Sith? Which one is more effective?
__________________ Earth is a beautiful addition to the Galaxy...but an even finer accessory on the hand of a God.
Bane's Order survived a Millennium in hiding and achieved total domination of the Republic and nearly wiped out the Jedi.
Within 10 years, Krayt's Order has started turning on itself.
Longevity for the win.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
This is a difficult topic to discuss because as newer star wars stuff comes out, the more ridiculous and unbelievable it becomes, even in the realm of Star Wars.
Let's take a look:
The Order of the Sith Lords were hidden for a thousand years and concentrated their power between two people. Because there were only numbering two, they had to share sith knowledge between the both of them, as opposed to the thousands of other sith. One may say that complete domination for 20 years after preparation for 1000 years is a pretty terrible ratio. On the other hand, they successfully wiped out the Jedi Order and watched the Jedi slowly create a new one, knowing it might take centuries to achieve full strength again. On the OTHER hand, it's unclear if the Sith would have ever conquered the Republic had Sidious not been born. We have no idea as to what extent the Sith corrupted the Republic for a millennium..
The Order of One is just a perversion of the ancient sith order, except there is no sith/dark council. They piggybacked on the reorganized Empire to take control of the galaxy after barely 100 years in existence. In terms of efficiency, I think they win. However, it doesn't appear that they possess anywhere near the level of dominance shared by Sidious and his Empire. They're constantly fighting Jedi and amongst themselves, something not seen between one master and one apprentice. Also, some of the sith, Wyyrlok and Krayt in particular, seem to have extensive knowledge of arcane force techniques. They may be the only ones that rival some of the sith lords in the Order of Two..
Anyways, that's all I can think up on the fly. They both have advantages and disadvantages but I think the Order of the Sith Lords win by a hair.
I've always thought that "Power is its own purpose" is a pretty flawed rationale. Basically it boils down to one thing.
You are ruled by fear.
If you don't want power for a specific purpose, then the only reason to acquire it is so that no-one else will have power over you. Given Bane's past (his abusive father, being in debt to the ORO company etc) it's hardly surprising he'd be afraid of anyone having power over him (even if he wasn't consciously aware of it) and would want desperately to grab it himself to prevent this. He may think he's overcome his fears, and in some ways he has, but in others fear governs his life and his every action.
Krayt's philosophy on the other hand, that having power is meaningless if it has no purpose, is about something more than just letting fear rule your life. It has a deeper sense of meaning.
This kind of thing was demonstrated in the Marvel comics "The Infinity War" series. At one point The Magus explains that he seeks the benefit of great power, not the power itself, as opposed to Thanos who only sought power so that no-one could control him.
Last edited by chilled monkey on Mar 25th, 2011 at 04:22 AM
I never liked Bane's (and Revan's, really) philosophy towards power. But I think the point of it is to make the individual crave the Dark Side, fueling their connection to it. The ultimate purpose at the end of the day is use that power to destroy the Jedi and the Republic. When seen from the long run, that makes sense.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Rule of One didn't last enough to be considered seriously.
Rule of Two, achieved complete domination of the Republic and the near absolute destruction of the Jedi Order. Although, none of this would've been done if it weren't for Sidious, of course. Out of thousands of Sith, he was the only one capable of implementing the RoT effectively enough to achieve the Sith's ultimate goals.
Replace Krayt with Sidious. Would things have gone differently? Definitely.
Just something to think about.
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Last edited by Col. Valerian on Mar 27th, 2011 at 10:42 PM
Something else to think about; by the time Palpatine became a Sith the Republic was already stagnant and corrupt since his Order had been working behind the scenes to make it so for a thousand years.
Palpatine deserves respect sure, but none of what he did would've been done if it weren't for generations of Sith laying the groundwork for him to build on and paving the way for him.
I think they're situational. Better the Rule of Two when playing a game of subtlety against a foe prepared for strength, better the Rule of One against a foe prepared for subtlety after having only known the Rule of Two.
Both beat the pants off of Kaan's "Council of Equals," in the Brotherhood of Darkness, of course.
They had been around for more than 10 years- Wyyrlok was a third generation One Sith, after all. I think they were about 90 years old.
The infighting only really started when Wyyrlok viewed Krayt as too wounded to continue unifying the Sith. Most of the time they're pretty good, though with the obvious achilles heel of requiring a strong leader such as Krayt.
One wonders what would've happened if things went differently, Wyyrlok continued to grow in power under a healthy Krayt, and was able to take Krayt's position in a more formal manner like a duel.
I don't know why you think that would be a point against the degree of Palpatine's success. I did well on my SAT based on the accumulated effort of several centuries of Enlightenment thinkers, but Yale will admit me (or not) based on my performance, not that of Immanuel Kant. Pointing out that a person had help with their task does not lessen the magnitude of their feat in the slightest.
(It is a pet peeve of mine when people implicitly [as opposed to explicitly] denigrate accomplishments.)
In universe, we can also point out that Zannah was awed by the scope of Bane's intelligence network. Managing the resources of those thousands of years worth of effort is just as impressive as forming them.
Well because obviously it would be even more impressive to pass the SAT based purely on your own ideas rather than Kants. If you can produce original ideas equal to Kants in a SAT paper then you're more impressive than a guy who can only discuss Kants ideas.
Beating Mike Tyson in a fight by youself is more impressive than doing so with 100 others guys helping you. Krayt took power pretty much with his own hands while Palpatine had eons of help to call upon.
Not at all. Forming the comparatitive worth of thousands of years of resources by yourself in under a hundred years is MUCH more impressive than merely managing thousands of years of other peoples work.
Now I'm not saying thats what happened but your point is still incorrect.
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Last edited by Nephthys on Mar 27th, 2011 at 11:33 PM
Yeah, he deserves an awful lot of respect. All those Sith 'laying the groundwork for him' failed. Or at least they were no where near achieving what he achieved. He succeeded where everyone else did not. Not a single merit should be taken away from Sidious' mastermind execution of his plans of Republic domination. He executed perfectly and did everything exactly as he should have.
The fact that the Republic was already corrupt does not make him any less amazing.
Wherever he is, whatever he's doing, all this verbal-fellatio of Palpatine just gave Gideon a raging boner.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
lol...does raging boner bother to stay current on Star Wars anymore? With the darth malgus's of the world? i haven't picked up a single book other than FOTJ since... well, I tried reading the time travel one with Jaden Korr and found it unreadable. and before that Millineum falcon, and found it unreadable and unrewarding...
Mar 24th, 2011 06:14 PM
