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Prophecies in Star Wars
Started by: Sinious

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Sinious
Yo Da Best

Registered: Nov 2013
Location: Above Anakin


 

Prophecies in Star Wars

Star Wars has a weird premise about philosophical topics that revolve around stuff like free will and determinism. The future is apparently always in motion, but fate is still a thing. This is seen most clearly with prophecies.

Firstly, what are the best examples of prophecies in the lore? The one with the Skywalkers is by far the most famous, but there are other instances of prophecies in Legends.

More importantly, I am interested in discussing how unique Anakin's prophecy is compared to similar cases like HoT being destined to kill Vitiate.

Is there anything beyond thematic importance that makes Anakin's prophecy more important/impressive? Obviously, this is also a comparison between Vitiate - Sidious and how great their destined dooms were. HoT has been used to undermine the Skywalker prophecy more than a few times. So, I wanna find out if there is any merit to it. One similarity I find interesting in both cases is that both Palp and Vitty acted more stupidly than they normally do (especially Palp). Vitiate is generally a bad combatant, but walking right into a lightsaber is pretty terrible even for him. Could the prophecies/will of the force be tackling the villains when the hero is near realizing their fate in these prophesied cases?

Unless I'm missing something, HoT's prophecy is impressive mainly due to these facts:

- Scourge saw him slaying Vitiate in his visions 300 years before HoT was even born.
- His vision is so clear that he dismisses everything else he sees and is confident enough to immediately abandon his team despite what's at stake.
- Vitiate acknowledges it when he says he sees futures in HoT that he will not allow.
- HoT ends up being the one who stops and kills Vitiate (more than once if you take Hotlander seriously).


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Last edited by Sinious on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 09:25 PM

Old Post Feb 23rd, 2018 09:22 PM
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Freedon Nadd
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Registered: Feb 2015
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Time loops.


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RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."

Old Post Feb 23rd, 2018 09:30 PM
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MoT-MoT
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Time loops.

do they exist?

Old Post Feb 23rd, 2018 09:35 PM
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Freedon Nadd
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Time travel exists in Star Wars. And you still ask?


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RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."

Old Post Feb 23rd, 2018 09:37 PM
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MoT-MoT
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
Time travel exists in Star Wars. And you still ask?

where does time travel happen in sw

Old Post Feb 23rd, 2018 09:37 PM
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Nephthys
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My view is that the although the future seems like its "always in motion" to Jedi who cannot see clearly, there is one true future that will 100% come to pass. The Force exists outside of time and thus it already knows the path history takes since it has already technically happened.

And there doesn't seem to be anything different between Scourges vision and the Chosen One prophecy other than that the Jedi knew about the latter and thus mythologised it far more, plus the rebalancing of the Force adds more cosmic significance. Also my view is firmly that it isn't until KotET than the HoT prophecy is truly fulfilled, since Scourges vision ends with the Hero taking Vitiates crown and putting it on, which is only fulfilled by the HoTlander taking the Eternal Throne from Valkorion.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by MoT-MoT
where does time travel happen in sw


Jacen/Caedus does it a few times.


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Old Post Feb 23rd, 2018 09:40 PM
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Sinious
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nephthys
Also my view is firmly that it isn't until KotET than the HoT prophecy is truly fulfilled, since Scourges vision ends with the Hero taking Vitiates crown and putting it on, which is only fulfilled by the HoTlander taking the Eternal Throne from Valkorion.
Interesting. This is further support for Hotlander being the true story.


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Old Post Feb 23rd, 2018 09:43 PM
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FreshestSlice
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The future is always in motion means you can change the future and need to take responsibility for your actions. As opposed, you know, just blaming the Force for your life being awful.

Scourge wasn't even talking about the Eternal Fleet, and in his reintroduction he says the Knight, the only person who can recruit him, did more than he expected. He was just talking about defeating Vitiate at the end of Chapter 3. The rest is window dressing for a character that can be any of the 8 classes.


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Old Post Feb 23rd, 2018 09:45 PM
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Freedon Nadd
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by MoT-MoT
where does time travel happen in sw


Darth Rivan uses the Darkstaff and creates a Palpatine storm that sends him back to Bane's times and he meets his end there.


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RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."

Old Post Feb 23rd, 2018 09:50 PM
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Azronger
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Anakin's prophecy is clearly more significant in that the Force directly spawned him via virgin birth to take care of history's biggest bad guy, and to be the most powerful Force user ever. All the Hero of Tython prophecy amounts to is one guy foreseeing that he would kill the Shit Emperor. There's absolutely no comparison.


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Old Post Feb 23rd, 2018 09:52 PM
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Freedon Nadd
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The future is always in motion means you can change the future and need to take responsibility for your actions. As opposed, you know, just blaming the Force for your life being awful.

Scourge wasn't even talking about the Eternal Fleet, and in his reintroduction he says the Knight, the only person who can recruit him, did more than he expected. He was just talking about defeating Vitiate at the end of Chapter 3. The rest is window dressing for a character that can be any of the 8 classes.


You are right. The Father mentions that to Anakin(to watch his heart)

So Ani's destiny to destroy the Sith by becoming one wasn't part of his destiny. He made it that way.


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RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."

Old Post Feb 23rd, 2018 09:52 PM
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Freedon Nadd
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Azronger
Anakin's prophecy is clearly more significant in that the Force directly spawned him via virgin birth to take care of history's biggest bad guy, and to be the most powerful Force user ever. All the Hero of Tython prophecy amounts to is one guy foreseeing that he would kill the Shit Emperor. There's absolutely no comparison.


Son, one does not become the Chosen One without Lucas' consensus and the Plot Force. And stop hailing Palps in every text of yours(and his master) It makes you look like a fanboy.


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RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."

Last edited by Freedon Nadd on Feb 23rd, 2018 at 09:57 PM

Old Post Feb 23rd, 2018 09:54 PM
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FreshestSlice
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Azronger
Anakin's prophecy is clearly more significant in that the Force directly spawned him via virgin birth to take care of history's biggest bad guy, and to be the most powerful Force user ever. All the Hero of Tython prophecy amounts to is one guy foreseeing that he would kill the Shit Emperor. There's absolutely no comparison.

Nah, it's comparable because Revan said something stupid before being beaten easily. Obviously.


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Old Post Feb 23rd, 2018 09:55 PM
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ares834
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Registered: Apr 2009
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sinious
Could the prophecies/will of the force be tackling the villains when the hero is near realizing their fate in these prophesied cases?


No.

Anyway, I wouldn’t say there is any real difference between force visions and the prophecy other then the fact that the latter is of far greater import.

Old Post Feb 23rd, 2018 09:55 PM
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Freedon Nadd
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Force visions are like little tears into the fabric of time.


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RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."

Old Post Feb 23rd, 2018 09:59 PM
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Sinious
Yo Da Best

Registered: Nov 2013
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Azronger
Anakin's prophecy is clearly more significant in that the Force directly spawned him via virgin birth to take care of history's biggest bad guy, and to be the most powerful Force user ever. All the Hero of Tython prophecy amounts to is one guy foreseeing that he would kill the Shit Emperor. There's absolutely no comparison.
Interesting. I guess the fact that the Skywalker prophecy involves something as drastic as the Force needing agency to stop the Emperor puts it on another level.


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Old Post Feb 23rd, 2018 10:04 PM
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Freedon Nadd
Senior Member

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Romania


 

-_-

Don't you know why is that? Cuz' Anakin is the main character of the franchise. So, Lucas' characters always get the best praise.


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RealistRacism: "Sheevites, much like the Banites, were meant to increase in power with each member. From Lightsnake to Gideon to Azronger, this was supposed to be the case. However, knowledge must've been lost in some kind of Gravid-like incident, as Az turned out to be a mid-tier debater with a sub-par track record, sh!itting all over Tempest's legacy. Sad."

Old Post Feb 23rd, 2018 10:18 PM
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Trocity
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Sound mad.


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Old Post Feb 23rd, 2018 10:30 PM
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TenebrousWay
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Are there out of universe sources about the HoT prophecy? Otherwise it could just be Scourge misinterpreting the Chosen One prophecy.


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Old Post Feb 23rd, 2018 11:15 PM
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NewGuy01
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Freedon Nadd
-_-

Don't you know why is that? Cuz' Anakin is the main character of the franchise. So, Lucas' characters always get the best praise.


Exactly. Because they're the important ones. thumb up


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Old Post Feb 23rd, 2018 11:37 PM
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