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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » So did Palpatine want Anakin to kill him?


So did Palpatine want Anakin to kill him?
Started by: The Ellimist

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The Ellimist
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Registered: Apr 2016
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So did Palpatine want Anakin to kill him?

Palpatine clearly expected Knightfall Vader to eventually challenge and overthrow him. It's a weird self-sacrificing angle that also applies to all Banite Sith, but it's especially bizarre with Palpatine because we then learn that he intends to become some sort of universal God.

Did he plan to somehow keep Vader under his thumb even if he hadn't lost his potential? Delusional. Was he going to kill him before he grew that powerful? Obviously not or why bother turning him? Was he planning to try to essence transfer into Anakin? Extremely risky given Anakin's innate power.

Did he change his mind and adopt the God-Emperor plan after Vader's injuries? If that were the case why would he want to turn Skywalker, and then allegedly want to rule forever with the Skywalkers as a "dynasty" by his side (at least in Legends)? An apprenticed Luke would clearly eventually try to overthrow him, and have a very good chance of succeeding.

So maybe finding a successor was plan A, becoming God himself was plan B, and we just ignore the ruling forever with Skywalkers by his side part?


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Last edited by The Ellimist on Mar 7th, 2018 at 03:09 PM

Old Post Mar 7th, 2018 02:55 PM
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Kurk
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Probably yeah. Like a true sith, Palpatine was prepared to sacrifice his own interests to allow the lineage to grow more powerful. We see the same thing with Dooku in Dark Disciple. Yeah he's an arrogant c*nt with his own intentions of ruling at Sheev's side, but he's prepared to accept his inferiority to Vos and let him take the spot instead. This is also one of the reasons why he didn't rat out Sidious in RotS IMO.


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Old Post Mar 7th, 2018 03:02 PM
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Galan007
|Imperial Tactician|

Registered: Jul 2006
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I don't think Sheev ever believed Vader would turn on him, until he was literally hurling down the reactor shaft in RotJ. That said, I believe he was okay with having an apprentice that would never try to kill him, because his ultimate goal was to essentially become 'God' by attaining an ultimate power that would allow him to reshape the universe in his own image... And thanks to the World Between Worlds, Palpatine knew that such power was indeed attainable. He wanted this power more than anything, and I highly doubt that desire ended after his final temptation of Ezra in Rebels -- I imagine he continued seeking out a gateway to that realm up until his death.

Suffice to say, Palpatine seemed to regard Vader as more of a pawn/lapdog that simply did his bidding, rather than an eventual 'replacement'. Imo. /shrug


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Last edited by Galan007 on Mar 7th, 2018 at 03:57 PM

Old Post Mar 7th, 2018 03:48 PM
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SheGotHerOwn
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Kurk
Probably yeah. Like a true sith, Palpatine was prepared to sacrifice his own interests to allow the lineage to grow more powerful. We see the same thing with Dooku in Dark Disciple. Yeah he's an arrogant c*nt with his own intentions of ruling at Sheev's side, but he's prepared to accept his inferiority to Vos and let him take the spot instead. This is also one of the reasons why he didn't rat out Sidious in RotS IMO.

sidious and many banite sith before him stopped following bane's rule of two tho, since they all wanted to be the final sith lmao

Old Post Mar 7th, 2018 03:53 PM
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The Ellimist
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
I don't think Sheev ever believed Vader would turn on him, until he was literally hurling down the reactor shaft in RotJ. That said, I believe he was okay with having an apprentice that would never try to kill him, because his ultimate goal was to essentially become 'God' by attaining an ultimate power that would allow him to reshape the universe in his own image... And thanks to the World Between Worlds, Palpatine knew that such power was indeed attainable. He wanted this power more than anything, and I highly doubt that desire ended after his final temptation of Ezra in Rebels -- I imagine he continued seeking out a gateway to that realm up until his death.

Suffice to say, Palpatine seemed to regard Vader as more of a pawn/lapdog that simply did his bidding, rather than an eventual 'replacement'. Imo. /shrug


Pre-Mustafar Vader was well on track to far outstripping Sidious in power. Had he not suffered those injuries it seems pretty inevitable that Vader would've confronted him at some point, and probably won.


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Old Post Mar 7th, 2018 04:00 PM
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Galan007
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Most likely, but that's irrelevant because Mustafar did happen, and Anakin was left as little more than a shell of the man he could have been.


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"The Grand Admiral was smart and subtle, but never used his brilliance to show up or humiliate anyone.
He demanded results, but never perfection, and had amazing stores of patience for those who were truly working to their fullest ability.
It was a pity Thrawn's style of leadership hadn't spread through the rest of the navy.
If that happened, he suspected, the Empire would stand forever."

Old Post Mar 7th, 2018 04:44 PM
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The Ellimist
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Right, I was talking about Palpatine's original intentions (hence "Anakin"). Though even after that his intentions to turn Luke have a similar paradox.


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Old Post Mar 7th, 2018 05:02 PM
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DarthPlaguis12
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I think that sidious was expecting Vader to one day succeed him but that was when he was able to reach his full potential.

After he was crippled and no longer able to reach that full potential sidious likely thoiyht of him as more replaceable

I think Vader would never have turned on him if not for the fact Vader found out he had kids

Old Post Mar 7th, 2018 06:13 PM
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relentless1
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Palpatine as of ROTS knew Vader would eventually overthrow him and he was ok with that as per his line to Yoda : "Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us" but once Ani took that lava dip his plans changed of course and he was always looking for a more powerful apprentice from then on.

Old Post Mar 7th, 2018 09:45 PM
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Zentrex
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He kept Vader under his control in such a way that Vader would never dream of rebelling against him, even if he were more powerful. I imagine that's what he wanted from Anakin all along.

Old Post Mar 8th, 2018 03:06 AM
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NewGuy01
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Re: So did Palpatine want Anakin to kill him?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The Ellimist
Did he plan to somehow keep Vader under his thumb even if he hadn't lost his potential? Delusional.


Bingo.

That was when Mace finally understood. He had it. The key to final victory. Palpatine's shatterpoint. The absolute shatter-point of the Sith. The shatterpoint of the dark side itself.

Palpatine trusts Anakin Skywalker.


--Revenge of the Sith novelization


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Old Post Mar 8th, 2018 03:37 AM
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The Ellimist
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Re: Re: So did Palpatine want Anakin to kill him?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Bingo.

That was when Mace finally understood. He had it. The key to final victory. Palpatine's shatterpoint. The absolute shatter-point of the Sith. The shatterpoint of the dark side itself.

Palpatine trusts Anakin Skywalker.


--Revenge of the Sith novelization


Pretty sure that's more short term (e.g. "Anakin will side with me over Windu") than Palpatine thinking a full potential Father-level Anakin would still bend the knee to him.


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Old Post Mar 8th, 2018 04:14 AM
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NewGuy01
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Are you seriously not getting that it's referencing RotJ as well?


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Old Post Mar 8th, 2018 04:33 AM
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Galan007
|Imperial Tactician|

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Theater of War


 

thumb up

This is a man who had absolute trust in Vader until the very end:

(please log in to view the image)


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"The Grand Admiral was smart and subtle, but never used his brilliance to show up or humiliate anyone.
He demanded results, but never perfection, and had amazing stores of patience for those who were truly working to their fullest ability.
It was a pity Thrawn's style of leadership hadn't spread through the rest of the navy.
If that happened, he suspected, the Empire would stand forever."

Last edited by Galan007 on Mar 8th, 2018 at 11:03 PM

Old Post Mar 8th, 2018 11:01 PM
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The Ellimist
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Are you seriously not getting that it's referencing RotJ as well?


Not the same context post-suit at all. Sidious repeatedly references the desire for Vader to "succeed" him throughout Legends:

I regret Vader disappointed me early on when he allowed himself to be mutilated by Kenobi. Yes, Vader remained strong in the Force, but strong enough to succeed me? Never.

and when he appears unable to, tries to find other "successors". He has "trust" in Anakin in the sense that he trusts he'll carry on the Sith mantle, not that he'll magically be subservient to him for all time lol.


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Last edited by The Ellimist on Mar 8th, 2018 at 11:30 PM

Old Post Mar 8th, 2018 11:27 PM
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DarthSkywalker0
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I initially agreed with Sas, but it does appear Sidious wanted a successor.


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Last edited by DarthSkywalker0 on Mar 8th, 2018 at 11:56 PM

Old Post Mar 8th, 2018 11:51 PM
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Freedon Nadd
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Palpatine just wanted a mighty weapon? He had no fear Anakin would kill him as Darth Vader because he would have no reason to.


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Old Post Mar 9th, 2018 04:15 PM
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The Ellimist
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up


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Old Post Apr 3rd, 2018 05:50 PM
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Freedon Nadd
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Down.


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Azronger: "Nadd is not a Sheevite. He hates Sheev. Avoid him."

Ancient Power: "Nadd is a God, one among few. Revanchiste the indecipherable being the Lord Shiva of said pantheon. Though one must never forget He Who Shall Not Be Named."

Old Post Apr 3rd, 2018 05:58 PM
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relentless1
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"Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us"

- Darth Sidious to Yoda

Old Post Apr 4th, 2018 09:26 AM
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