The idea of this series is to detail and discuss the dominant forces in SWTOR, starting with the Hero of Tython and eventually working towards Unchained Vaylin. I’m going to use this series as an opportunity to flesh out the best performances/scaling/hype for these characters, and see what you all have to think about them.
Hero of Tython (Act 1 to Act 3)
Firstly, I find it important to establish the power of the vanilla heavy hitters to get an idea of the baseline for what we’re dealing with when it comes to somebody like Unchained Vaylin or peak Outlander, much less Valkorion. With the Hero of Tython, we’re dealing with a being who, by the end of Act 1, was already regarded as “a Jedi without equal” and the Jedi Order’s “greatest weapon against the darkness” by Grandmaster Shan, “the greatest jedi the order has seen in generations” and “the greatest soldier” in the order by Master Braga, etc. If this wasn’t sufficient enough, by the end of Act 2, the HoT has been referred to as the “Jedi’s finest” by Lord Scourge and “the greatest warrior” in the order by Satele. It's hard to deny the bounty of statements by multiple reputable and powerful Old Republic figures: Even by the end of Act 2, the HoT is the best there is. As such, this gives him a rather favorable comparison over the likes of Barsen’thor, a pretty absurdly powerful Jedi who was capable of defeating Lord Vivicar in a heavily weakened state by the end of Act 1, Lord Vivicar being powerful enough to bind hundreds of jedi masters to his will, drive them insane, and (arguably) leech their force energy while fighting Barsen’thor. Furthermore, in a rather astonishing display of power, the Barsen’thor is able to use her shielding technique to rip Terrhak Morrhage’s spirit from Vivicar’s body. Video for the relevant feats regarding Vivicar/Barsen’thor:
Morrhage’s force plague was a threat of such significance and depth that it required the Consular to gather Bastila Shan, Nomi Sunrider, Arca Jeth, Master Vandar, and numerous other legendary jedi masters through the noetikons to discern its nature. Even Nomi Sunrider did not know, in reference to Yuon Par, “how such a powerful jedi could be mind controlled:”
I think this pretty much cements Vivicar’s status: He’s an immensely powerful ancient sith lord dominating the minds of hundreds of jedi masters and binding them to his will/essence while subsequently sapping their energy and vitality to further fuel his power.
So from this, we can derive a few key ideas:
- End of Act 2 HoT is the most powerful Jedi and the greatest warrior in the galaxy, beyond even the likes of Grandmaster Satele Shan and Barsen’thor.
- End of Act 2 HoT is vastly more powerful than weakened End of Act 1 Barsen’thor, who was powerful enough to defeat Terrhak Morrhage in combat and proceeded to literally rip his spirit from Lord Vivicar’s body.
- Nomi Sunrider didn’t even understand how Morrhage was capable of mind controlling a jedi as powerful as Yuon Par, and Morrhage was doing this to hundreds of jedi masters across the galaxy. This potentially indicates that the likes of Barsen’thor, and thus the HoT are beyond Nomi Sunrider, likely by the end of Act 1, and arguably far beyond by the end of Act 2.
Act 2 HoT is already the best there is, and yet he becomes so much more. This leads us into Lord Scourge, who was capable of stalemating Act 2 HoT as per the SWTOR codex:
This makes sense. After all, even in SWTOR: Revan, Scourge was described as having incredible force potential by both Nyriss and Revan, and with his battle prowess amped by the Sith Emperor, was afforded 300 more years to hone his powers and skills, and as the Emperor’s personal executioner, he’s had both ample reason and opportunity to do so, killing hundreds of jedi and sith who grew too ambitious or too powerful. As such, “even the most powerful members of the Dark Council avoid offending the man bearing the title, ‘The Emperor’s Wrath.’” In fact, we have pretty solid reason to believe that Scourge is actually more powerful than Act 2 HoT. The evidence for this is shown when the HoT and Scourge are escaping the Emperor’s Fortress and they have the following exchange:
Essentially, Scourge is trying to prove his sincerity to the HoT by harkening back to Quesh, where he claims he could have killed the HoT had he wanted, a reference that the HoT doesn’t seem to contest (i.e. it actually convinces him of Scourge’s sincerity). Quesh takes place in the exact middle of Act 2, where the HoT is already established as the greatest warrior and most powerful jedi in the order. Furthermore, when Scourge confronts the HoT on Quesh, he is in the middle of a Republic Base surrounded by a Dark Council member-turned Jedi who battled Tol Braga (also referred to as like one of the top 5 jedi in the order) for days. Unless the Hero grew dramatically more powerful between Quesh and the Emperor’s fortress, it’s entirely possible that Scourge is above End of Act 2 HoT. At bare minimum, however, he is on par.
The point of bringing up Lord Scourge is to use him as a means of comparing Act 2 HoT to Act 3 HoT. As aforementioned, Scourge is capable of stalemating Act 2 HoT, but how does he stack up to Act 3 HoT. Well consider this: Scourge explicitly concedes that he cannot resist the direct influence of weakened!Vitiate:
To me, this already illustrates a pretty sizeable gap between weakened!Vitiate and Scourge. Scourge is not powerful enough to resist the Emperor’s telepathic influence. Here’s the Hero of Tython, however, drowned in an immensely potent dark side nexus, after “dissipating his energies” saving his apprentice and fighting through numerous Sith and Imperial Guardsmen, thus allowing the Emperor even more time to recover…
So the HoT is “too powerful” to be mentally dominated by the Emperor, and thus the Emperor resorts to other methods (i.e. conventional force abilities). But even then…
Weakened!Vitiate was demonstrably no match for the HoT, whereas Scourge would be telepathically enslaved by the Emperor, no conventional battle required. By the end of Act 3, the HoT is unquestionably the most powerful force user in the known galaxy (with the exception of the Dread Masters), and vastly more powerful than his Act 2 iteration. If we were to make a conservative scaling chain, it would look something like:
Act 3 HoT > Weakened Vitiate >> Act 3 Scourge >~ Act 2 HoT >> weakened Act 2 Barsen’thor > Lord Vivicar > Nomi Sunrider (plus his insane feats in general)
I do find this chain to be rather conservative, because if we truly account for every detail, it becomes:
Act 3 HoT (unhindered) >> Act 3 HoT (Dark Temple) > Weakened Vitiate >> amped Act 3 Scourge > Act 2 HoT >> Act 1 Barsen’thor >> weakened Act 1 Barsen’thor > Lord Vivicar >> Nomi Sunrider (plus insane feats in general)
There is also an intuitive aspect of this as well: The Hero of Tython is literally a prophesied champion of light who is destined to overcome the Emperor and succeed where literally every major player over the course of 1400 + years had failed. Scourge was blown away by the HoT's power and potential to the extent that he believed he could become the most powerful entity in the galaxy if he embraced the dark side. Scourge muses that since the HoT can't be fully turned, his son will have to fulfill that destiny:
I think the above statements, scaling, and feats make it clear that by the End of Act 3, the HoT is a nigh-unprecedented force prodigy with immense and consistent power growth, and a force user who is capable of shitting on the most powerful Jedi Masters and Sith Lords the galaxy has to offer. Where exactly he stands at this point, though, is open to interpretation. What are your thoughts?
__________________ ”You presume limits to my power. There are none.”
Registered: Aug 2014
Location: The balance of the Force
Excellent thread.
By the way, Lord Scourge > ACT 2 HoT > Master Warren Sedoru > Ven Zallow ~ Decieved!Malgus >> Hope!Malgus >> Return!Malgus > Battlemaster Kao Cen Darach.
__________________
Within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame. This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
Really interresting...
As feat we have also that Orgus Dinn was able to destroy a huge tunnel at the start of the prologue. The same guys is literraly ragdoll by his former apprentice (Bengel Mor) who loose to end of tython HoT. Knowing how big is the groth of the HoT is power will be insane.
A similar feat is in the Barshen'tor arc the destruction of a cavern by Nalen at the start of the story. And the Barshen'tor just decimate him at the end of tython.
Yeah, HoT is Anakin lite. He's probably late TCW Anakin level by the end of Act 3. SWTOR scaling is really nuts, it's the culmination of the ancient line of the Sith with Tenebrae and his Empire.
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"You were weak when I found you. I did not expect you to survive your training. But now, your hatred has become your strength. At last, the dark side is your ally. "
Dec 6th, 2018 04:21 AM
