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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » What if Tarkin and Thrawn had survived?


What if Tarkin and Thrawn had survived?
Started by: Mendax

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Mendax
Hand of God

Registered: Sep 2017
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What if Tarkin and Thrawn had survived?

What if they would have both still been alive during ROTJ? Could they have made a difference or would the Rebellion still have won?

I'm obviously talking from a canon point of view.


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Old Post Apr 20th, 2019 09:05 PM
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CaveDude33211
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Registered: Feb 2013
Location: On my lawn chair drinkin a beer


 

Re: What if Tarkin and Thrawn had survived?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mendax
What if they would have both still been alive during ROTJ? Could they have made a difference or would the Rebellion still have won?

I'm obviously talking from a canon point of view.


Yup - Thrawn alone could have turned the tide of the war and defeated the New Republic.


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Old Post Apr 20th, 2019 09:08 PM
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Zenwolf
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Registered: Dec 2013
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Thrawn is alive, he was just pulled into some Force whale/tentacle shenanigans and hyperjumped into the Unknown Regions. Kinda a convoluted way to put him out of ROTJ, but yeah.

Still if both he and Tarkin were alive by ROTJ, then the Rebellion surviving...most likely not. Though Tarkin isn't really needed.


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Old Post Apr 20th, 2019 09:10 PM
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Galan007
|Quantum Observer|

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Mars, 1985


 

Honestly, if Thrawn and Tarkin had still been in the picture by the time of RotJ, it's unlikely that there would have even been a Rebellion left to challenge the Empire.


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Old Post Apr 20th, 2019 09:14 PM
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gold slorg
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Honestly, Tarkin wouldn't change a thing.

But if Thrawn was still a top dog, yeah, things would be massively different.

Old Post Apr 21st, 2019 02:16 AM
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Galan007
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Registered: Jul 2006
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Yeah, you're probably right. For as much power/authority as Tarkin held, he certainly wasn't the best tactician I've ever seen.


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Old Post Apr 21st, 2019 02:34 PM
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Zenwolf
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, you're probably right. For as much power/authority as Tarkin held, he certainly wasn't the best tactician I've ever seen.


Thank you! Someone else thinks the same. I mean he's a great character, but within the whole of the SWU, I can think of better tacticians/strategists.


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Old Post Apr 21st, 2019 03:03 PM
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gold slorg
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Yeah. Tarkin was good as a military tactician and leader, but not so much of a strategist - his military doctrine is actually one of the things used by Rebellion against the Empire with their space tactics. He wasn't bad, but the Empire had lots of better military strategists imo.

Old Post Apr 21st, 2019 03:09 PM
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Galan007
|Quantum Observer|

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Mars, 1985


 

I'm trying not to compare Tarkin directly to Thrawn, simply because Thrawn makes even the best minds in the Empire look like infantile buffoons when it comes to the art of warfare... But even with Thrawn off the table, Tarkin still just comes off as a fair military strategist/tactician at best, imo. That massive ego of his was a huge weakness/character flaw, and was ultimately responsible for his untimely death.

Even though Tarkin had absolute dominion in both arenas, he was much better suited for the political/bureaucratical side of things. /shrug


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Last edited by Galan007 on Apr 21st, 2019 at 04:32 PM

Old Post Apr 21st, 2019 04:30 PM
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Zelax
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If Thrawn was present during the events of ROTJ, then the Rebellion would be seriously screwed.

Old Post Apr 21st, 2019 05:51 PM
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Mendax
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I don't know. Think Thrawn might be getting a little too much hype.

He suffered a horrible defeat at Attolon which pissed the Emperor and Vader off immensely. Yeah some of it was due to a force user intervening but still. He also failed to stop the Rebels long before that battle even happened.

Why do you think he would all of the sudden be able to beat the Rebels in ROTJ?


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Old Post Apr 23rd, 2019 05:13 PM
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Galan007
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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Mars, 1985


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mendax
I don't know. Think Thrawn might be getting a little too much hype.

He suffered a horrible defeat at Attolon which pissed the Emperor and Vader off immensely. Yeah some of it was due to a force user intervening but still. He also failed to stop the Rebels long before that battle even happened.

Why do you think he would all of the sudden be able to beat the Rebels in ROTJ?
Firstly, Thrawn allowed the individual Rebel cells he engaged beforehand to survive -- he wanted to discern the location of their base and wipe out the entire Rebellion in one fell swoop. That being said, his 'failures' to stop the Rebels prior to the battle of Atollon were, in actuality, part of a much larger strategy.

As for the battle of Atollon itself: bear in mind that Thrawn could have destroyed the Rebels during his aerial bombardment of the base:
(please log in to view the image)

However, he stopped his bombardment before killing them because a bit earlier in the episode, Tarkin(ironically enough) had explicitly ordered him to take the Rebels' leadership alive:
quote:
Thrawn: "It's exactly this moment I have been waiting for... To wipe [the Rebels] out."
Tarkin: "I want you to capture their leadership."
Thrawn: "In such a battle it may not be possible to take prisoners..."
Tarkin: "Ah, but a man of your talents will manage. If we are to crush this Rebellion, we must make examples of its leaders."
Thrawn: "As you wish, Governor Tarkin..."

-Rebels S03E20

If Thrawn had his way, he would've just killed the Rebels then and there, and been done with it... But he was obligated to follow the orders of his superior officer(Tarkin.)

...And I really hope you aren't trying to pretend like Bendu is just some simple, run-of-the-mill "force user", right? Bendu is more akin to an elemental force god -- of course a being on his level is going to turn the tide in a battle, lol. Despite this, Thrawn was still able to figure out a way to 'beat' him on the fly, so there's that. /shrug


Anyway, put Thrawn as commanding officer in RotJ, and I have no doubt that he would have crushed the Rebels. As I said before: if Thrawn wouldn't have been removed from play, it's unlikely that there would have even been a Rebellion left to challenge the Empire by the time of RotJ. As a strategist/tactician, Thrawn was so far above everyone else in the Empire(including even its 'great minds', like Vader) that he would regard certain people as stellar tacticians if they were able to simply comprehend his plans... Even after they had been explained, lol.





tl;dr
Believe the hype. thumb up


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I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."

Last edited by Galan007 on Apr 23rd, 2019 at 07:43 PM

Old Post Apr 23rd, 2019 07:32 PM
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Darth Thor
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^ Okay you must see youve taken that quote completely out of context.

Old Post Apr 23rd, 2019 09:24 PM
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Mendax
Hand of God

Registered: Sep 2017
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
Firstly, Thrawn allowed the individual Rebel cells he engaged beforehand to survive -- he wanted to discern the location of their base and wipe out the entire Rebellion in one fell swoop. That being said, his 'failures' to stop the Rebels prior to the battle of Atollon were, in actuality, part of a much larger strategy.

As for the battle of Atollon itself: bear in mind that Thrawn could have destroyed the Rebels during his aerial bombardment of the base:
(please log in to view the image)

However, he stopped his bombardment before killing them because a bit earlier in the episode, Tarkin(ironically enough) had explicitly ordered him to take the Rebels' leadership alive:

If Thrawn had his way, he would've just killed the Rebels then and there, and been done with it... But he was obligated to follow the orders of his superior officer(Tarkin.)

...And I really hope you aren't trying to pretend like Bendu is just some simple, run-of-the-mill "force user", right? Bendu is more akin to an elemental force god -- of course a being on his level is going to turn the tide in a battle, lol. Despite this, Thrawn was still able to figure out a way to 'beat' him on the fly, so there's that. /shrug


Anyway, put Thrawn as commanding officer in RotJ, and I have no doubt that he would have crushed the Rebels. As I said before: if Thrawn wouldn't have been removed from play, it's unlikely that there would have even been a Rebellion left to challenge the Empire by the time of RotJ. As a strategist/tactician, Thrawn was so far above everyone else in the Empire(including even its 'great minds', like Vader) that he would regard certain people as stellar tacticians if they were able to simply comprehend his plans... Even after they had been explained, lol.





tl;dr
Believe the hype. thumb up
Yeah makes sense. I had honestly forgotten about all the surrounding context.

does Thrawn have any losses in canon other then in the final episode of the series?


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Old Post Apr 24th, 2019 01:54 PM
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