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-=- What If Clinton was Still In Office -=-
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Koala MeatPie
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-=- What If Clinton was Still In Office -=-

If Clintonwas Still in offce, what would you think he would of done about "all off this" (9/11, Osama, Iraq) Or would there even of Been a 9/11 or Iraq?


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2004 02:19 AM
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Koala MeatPie
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And thanks to irgnore we can post politics right?


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2004 02:20 AM
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Darth Revan
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I don't think 9/11 would have happened if Clinton was still president, on account of us still being relatively well liked by the world back then. But if there had been a 9/11, the Patriot Act would not have been passed, and we would be in Afghanistan rather than Iraq.


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2004 02:21 AM
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Koala MeatPie
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I saw Ferneheit 9/11 but i still don't udnertsand what the patriot act is...


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2004 02:24 AM
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RaventheOnly
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wtf.... if Clinton were still in office he would have been impeached and really under the microscope unfourtunetly.... and all that had happened would have still occured because no matter what ...... they still hated us... do you guys remember that the first World trade center bombing happened during his presidency? and the embassy bombings? and the UN inspector kickings? and the USS Cole bombing?


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2004 02:26 AM
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RaventheOnly
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the patriot act mearly bridges the gap between CIA, FBI, and local police. also, it allows police to get search warrants faster. thats about it.


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2004 02:27 AM
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SlipknoT
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I think this should be in the GDF


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2004 02:27 AM
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MC Mike
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quote:
Originally posted by Darth Revan
I don't think 9/11 would have happened if Clinton was still president, on account of us still being relatively well liked by the world back then. But if there had been a 9/11, the Patriot Act would not have been passed, and we would be in Afghanistan rather than Iraq.


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2004 02:34 AM
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Darth Revan
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quote:
Originally posted by RaventheOnly
the patriot act mearly bridges the gap between CIA, FBI, and local police. also, it allows police to get search warrants faster. thats about it.


I beg to differ... The Patriot Act allows police to search people's homes WITHOUT a warrant. (I think... I'll clarify that in a second) I am fairly sure they can also arrest people without a warrant. The first time I really opened my eyes to how dangerous this thing is was just recently, when I found out about a guy named Sherman Austin who was arrested for having a link to very vague, general information about explosives on his site. This is information that can be found almost anywhere on the internet, on quite a few other American sites. Even on some white supremacy sites, which actually DO practice violent crimes from time to time. Problem with his site was, it was an "anarchist" site. I've visited it a few times though, and it really wasn't anything harmful. Nobody was saying "let's go throw molotov cocktails at the white house!" or anything along those lines. There was a page about guerilla warfare, and that too, was just general, historical information that could be found anywhere. It even had a disclaimer of sorts at the bottom saying that this was not intended for people to actually create a guerilla band or anything. But a couple years ago, the cops busted into Sherman's house with M-16's, stole his computer, and left. No big deal at first, the site stayed on the net, and I think he was issued a fine or something. Then, just recently, he was arrested at a nonviolent protest in New York. He was sentenced to a good deal of jailtime (don't remember exactly how long, but it was a few years at least) for doing basically what Americans are, or were, encouraged to do. Exercise our freedom of speech. Yet he was labelled a terrorist. Just a month or so ago, the site was shut down entirely. So basically, the Patriot Act gives the government the right to be watching every move you make, interpret it however they want, call you a terrorist, arrest you without a warrant, and throw you in jail without telling you how long you'll be there, or allowing you to see or call anybody. Scary stuff.


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2004 02:39 AM
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113
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the patriot act reducies civil liberties


...as for if Clinton were still in office, the world would be much better off if he was able to have remained in office 12 years. And this war in iraq would not of happened, instead we're be more heavly concentrated in Afghanistan where we should be. And the world wouldn't hate us as muc has they do now.


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2004 02:41 AM
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BackFire
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quote:
Originally posted by 113
the patriot act reducies civil liberties


...as for if Clinton were still in office, the world would be much better off if he was able to have remained in office 12 years. And this war in iraq would not of happened, instead we're be more heavly concentrated in Afghanistan where we should be. And the world wouldn't hate us as muc has they do now.



Agreed.


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2004 02:41 AM
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Sweet Sacrifice
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hmmmmm lets think......well we be pretty much screwed. Kinda like we are now. no matter what pres we get, were still pretty much screwed over.

Old Post Oct 12th, 2004 02:52 AM
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RaventheOnly
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quote:
Originally posted by Darth Revan
I beg to differ... The Patriot Act allows police to search people's homes WITHOUT a warrant. (I think... I'll clarify that in a second) I am fairly sure they can also arrest people without a warrant. The first time I really opened my eyes to how dangerous this thing is was just recently, when I found out about a guy named Sherman Austin who was arrested for having a link to very vague, general information about explosives on his site. This is information that can be found almost anywhere on the internet, on quite a few other American sites. Even on some white supremacy sites, which actually DO practice violent crimes from time to time. Problem with his site was, it was an "anarchist" site. I've visited it a few times though, and it really wasn't anything harmful. Nobody was saying "let's go throw molotov cocktails at the white house!" or anything along those lines. There was a page about guerilla warfare, and that too, was just general, historical information that could be found anywhere. It even had a disclaimer of sorts at the bottom saying that this was not intended for people to actually create a guerilla band or anything. But a couple years ago, the cops busted into Sherman's house with M-16's, stole his computer, and left. No big deal at first, the site stayed on the net, and I think he was issued a fine or something. Then, just recently, he was arrested at a nonviolent protest in New York. He was sentenced to a good deal of jailtime (don't remember exactly how long, but it was a few years at least) for doing basically what Americans are, or were, encouraged to do. Exercise our freedom of speech. Yet he was labelled a terrorist. Just a month or so ago, the site was shut down entirely. So basically, the Patriot Act gives the government the right to be watching every move you make, interpret it however they want, call you a terrorist, arrest you without a warrant, and throw you in jail without telling you how long you'll be there, or allowing you to see or call anybody. Scary stuff.


no. That would be suspending Habeas Corpsus, which has been done twice in our history. what you are describing is suspending search and seizure mixed with suspending habeas corpsus, and during the early 1900's there were communist sympithizers that incited a riot and threw bombs into a crowd with exactly the kind of information described by that site... much that seems simple and harmless when concentrated in one place for easy access can be dangerous. I am sure that if what you described happened without a warrent the media would have spread it from sea to shinning sea... perhaps he is not telling you everything.


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2004 02:57 AM
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Darth Revan
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What logic some people base their political views on, I will never know. When Clinton was president, the deficit gradually decreased until there was actually a surplus. Education was much, much better off than it is today. The situation in Israel was practically resolved, thanks to Clinton's negotiating skills. Half the world was not blowing the other half up. So what in god's name makes you think we would be screwed if Clinton was still president? We had it damn good back then. Obviously there were a lot of bad things going on too, but not nearly as much so as we see today.


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2004 02:59 AM
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RaventheOnly
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quote:
Originally posted by 113
the patriot act reducies civil liberties


...as for if Clinton were still in office, the world would be much better off if he was able to have remained in office 12 years. And this war in iraq would not of happened, instead we're be more heavly concentrated in Afghanistan where we should be. And the world wouldn't hate us as muc has they do now.


God did you read my original response? all the stuff that happened after his presidency was nurtured by his presidency... you thnk Clinton was a God or something roll eyes (sarcastic) he couldn't even get the Isrealis and Palastinians to stop fighting.... let alone Milosovich.... and he let Saddam fire missles at our planes with a cruise missle slap to say bad boy roll eyes (sarcastic)


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2004 03:00 AM
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Sweet Sacrifice
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RTO, your so bloody smart when it comes to this stuff big grin stick out tongue

Old Post Oct 12th, 2004 03:01 AM
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Ronny
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it probably be crying in a corner


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2004 03:02 AM
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RaventheOnly
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quote:
Originally posted by Darth Revan
What logic some people base their political views on, I will never know. When Clinton was president, the deficit gradually decreased until there was actually a surplus. Education was much, much better off than it is today. The situation in Israel was practically resolved, thanks to Clinton's negotiating skills. Half the world was not blowing the other half up. So what in god's name makes you think we would be screwed if Clinton was still president? We had it damn good back then. Obviously there were a lot of bad things going on too, but not nearly as much so as we see today.


Dude... Clinton had nothing to do with the surplus laughing out loud that is Congress's domain and illegal for the presiddent to touch stick out tongue Education was better because the economy was good. Our economy goes threw a cycle of recessions... thats how near free-market works... its the ground work of the previous administration that makes the course for the nexts economy, that is how it has always worked.

i liked Clinton but he is given too much credit most of the time... erm


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2004 03:03 AM
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Darth Revan
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quote:
Originally posted by RaventheOnly
no. That would be suspending Habeas Corpsus, which has been done twice in our history. what you are describing is suspending search and seizure mixed with suspending habeas corpsus, and during the early 1900's there were communist sympithizers that incited a riot and threw bombs into a crowd with exactly the kind of information described by that site... much that seems simple and harmless when concentrated in one place for easy access can be dangerous. I am sure that if what you described happened without a warrent the media would have spread it from sea to shinning sea... perhaps he is not telling you everything.


And perhaps your government is not telling you everything. There is nothing wrong with arresting people who throw bombs into a crowd, warrant or no. But this guy hadn't done anything harmful. To start with, the information about explosives was not on his site. He had not written it, therefore should never have been held accountable for it in the first place. And as I said before, there are hundreds of sites on the web that have exactly the same thing. None of which this kind of thing has happened to. Protesting an organization or anything else peacefully is not, or was not at one point, illegal in this country. Nor, obviously, is having general information about explosives on a website. If that were illegal, there would be hundreds of other people in jail right now for the same thing. Believe it or not, the media doesn't tell you everything, nor is everything the media tells you true.


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having nothing but a hyphen under my name makes me look so xhardxcorex. like a felon.

Old Post Oct 12th, 2004 03:06 AM
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Darth Revan
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quote:
Originally posted by RaventheOnly
God did you read my original response? all the stuff that happened after his presidency was nurtured by his presidency... you thnk Clinton was a God or something roll eyes (sarcastic) he couldn't even get the Isrealis and Palastinians to stop fighting.... let alone Milosovich.... and he let Saddam fire missles at our planes with a cruise missle slap to say bad boy roll eyes (sarcastic)


Dude... he was about two inches away from getting the Israelis and Palestinians to stop fighting. And about the economy, I don't know what you're talking about. The president is not totally powerless when it comes to the economy. This is why we see Kerry and Bush arguing about tax cuts during the debates. Believe it or not, taxes have a direct effect on the amount of money the government has! eek! And more money for the government means more money to spend on public programs, which means more money for schools! eek! Holy shit, I think we're really onto something here!


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having nothing but a hyphen under my name makes me look so xhardxcorex. like a felon.

Old Post Oct 12th, 2004 03:10 AM
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