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All clues point to Jack and Elizabeth
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lovethemtigers
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All clues point to Jack and Elizabeth

I know we have discussed all this on other threads, but felt like starting a new one.

Here's a list of clues that I think Disney puts in the movie on purpose for us (the audience) to take notice of the Jack/Elizabeth relationship (they may not be noticed the first time, but on a second viewing they are very evident):

1. Will and Liz's wedding is stopped due to them being arrested for helping _JACK.
2. Lord Beckett's comment to Liz when she has him at gunpoint making him sign the letters of marque...."Take into your calculations that you have robbed my of my wedding night," He says..."Ah yes, a wedding interupted...or fate intervenes...You seem to be taking great efforts to ensure the freedom of Jack Sparrow" Liz responds, "These are for Will", and Beckett says, "oh really. Then for Will Turners' freedom, either way I will still need that compass..." (okay, so here he is hinting that fate has intervened to stop her from marrying the wrong man)
3. When the group visits Tia's cabin --Will tells her they need to find the key, Tia says to Jack "the compass you bartered from me, it can't help you find this?" and Jack says, "Maybe, Why?" Tia smiles and says, "Ahh, Jack Sparrow don't know what he want, or maybe he know what he want but its loath to claim it as his own....." (IMO, this means he wants Elizabeth but cannot claim her for his own..because of Will???) then when she tells them of the story of Davy Jones, Tia says "He was a great sailor unitl he ran afoul of something that vexed him." Tia says it is something that vexes all men, and Will asks "What vexes men?" Gibbs offers "The sea" and the other two pirates offer some answers and Jack says "A woman". Tia then says, "A woman. He fell in love with a woman. A woman as changing, as harsh and as untameable as the sea.....he couldn't live with the pain, yet he could not die, so he cut him heart out..." (It's kind of ironic that Jack knew that it would be a woman that would vex a man....sometimes I wonder if his story is mirroring Davy Jones...he has fallen in love with Elizabeth....and was a good sailor...)
4. When Norrington notices that Liz is smiling after her persuade me conversation with Jack...."Curious thing..there was a time when i would have given anything for you to look like that when thinking about me..", Liz responds, "I don't know what you mean." Norrie says, "Oh, I think you do." Liz responds "Don't be absurd I trust him that's all" and Norrie starts to walk off then turns back and says, "So you never wondered how your latest finace ended up aboard the Flying Dutchman in the first place." He shakes his head and laughs.

Here Elizabeth opens the compass and it points to Jack....earlier Jack tells Elizabeth point blank that the compass points to the thing you want most in this world....

5. On the beach, The compass once again points to Jack and she gets aggravated saying "This compass does not work and it certainly doesn't show you what you want most." Norrington knows the compass pointed to Jack and they show a shot of Norrington rolling his eyes with an expression that says "Oh Please, just admit that you want the guy and stop kidding yourself."

To me these more than anything show that Disney definitely is looking toward a Jack/Elizabeth relationship... And as for the "happy ever-after endings" Disney style....well, IMO the happy ever after ending for me, and I know scores of other fans, is for Jack and Liz to sail away together....I truly believe they can be together without Will having his heart torn out...anyways...just some thoughts. Any other clues ya'll picked up on....

Old Post Aug 10th, 2006 11:04 PM
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LovelyOne
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VERY good observations!! and they are so very VERY true..I agree will wont tear his heart out..I feel his dad is going to talk big sense to him...I also think that Jacks dad is going to make Jack realise something about himself...perhaps that Liz is the missing part of him or something. Words of wisdom from their daddy dearest..

but I don't think it's going to be Jack who is mirroring Davy..since the actual Director has said its going to be Will/Liz who mirrors Davy/Calypso...Jack's not exactly the best sailor either laughing out loud There a re tonnes of hints that its Will..especially the part where he's playing with the knife at the end after just seeing Liz kiss Jack...I mean hello...MASSIVE symbolism right there..what is he going to DO with that knife if Liz overstepps the line next time...but on much BIGGER scale..for example leaving him for Jack??

What also makes me laugh about Norrington is the FACT he knew that the compass would point to jack if Liz looked at it so he then makes her question how Will got onto the Dutchman..It points to Jack..she then thinks that the compass is saying JACK left him on the Dutchman when its NOT what the compass is really saying to her at all..Its shakes Liz's trust in Jack......SCORE 1 to Norrington when it comes to Liz in that scene. laughing out loud sly son of a gun big grin

"Also the whole loathe to claim it for his own" loathe means hate...he will "hate to claim Liz for his own"?? confused maybe she meant Jack is loathing having the problem of Will when he wants Liz? Will is a bother to him in the movie its clear...so he's loathing the hassle of trying to be rid of him..

Last edited by LovelyOne on Aug 10th, 2006 at 11:21 PM

Old Post Aug 10th, 2006 11:17 PM
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diddly
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Agreeing with the both of you


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Old Post Aug 10th, 2006 11:21 PM
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LovelyOne
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LOL oh wait...loath means wary or reluctant..so he knows what he wants but unsure of how to claim it for his own...and is wary about claiming it for his own..because Will is right there.

Last edited by LovelyOne on Aug 10th, 2006 at 11:34 PM

Old Post Aug 10th, 2006 11:26 PM
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diddly
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Dunno,.. not much into romantics,so I don't know exactly how it works,..


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Old Post Aug 10th, 2006 11:27 PM
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lovethemtigers
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by LovelyOne
LOL oh wait...loath means wary or reluctant..so he knows what he wants but unsure of how to claim it for his own...and is wary about claiming it for his own..because Will is right there...


BINGO! Exactly....Jack knows he wants Liz but doesn't know how to claim it...IMO The Compass is the central theme of this movie, there is so much emphasis put on the compass....Beckett wants the compass.. Tia wants to know why the compass isn't helping Jack to locate the chest (if that is what he wants most in this world), Jack explains the compass to Liz in a very sensual scene to me - just the way he is looking at her, the way he place the compass in her hand...., Liz holding the compass and it pointing to Jack each time....Jack holding the compass in the long boat and showing back up on the Pearl to save the day...

And Yes, Jack does seem to be trying to steer Will toward other interests in this movie...Jack knows that Bootstrap Bill is on the Flying Dutchman.....so maybe he knows Will may be destracted from Liz by trying to help his father....

Old Post Aug 10th, 2006 11:33 PM
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LovelyOne
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Yes I noticed that about that scene where he gives Liz the compass too..She seems to be totally engrossed by Jack's proximity to her..Norrington is trying to get her attention but the scene is most definitely about their closeness and the intensity she is feeling of him touching her hands and speaking to her as if she is..I don't know if "precious" is the right word.

Also the reluctance to claiming Liz could also mean that Jack is in denial "I'm jack SPARROW..i don't GET feelings for women..." Oh but you ARE Jack whether you like it or not laughing out loud

And thats true..Its as if Jack wanted Will on the Dutchman..he is constantly trying to get rid of him through out the movie by smacking his head in with the oar and constantly ridiculing his manhood....look at his face when Will appears on the beach out of no where..he's like "oh CRAP..I THOUGHT I got rid of you damn it!"

AHA I wonder if Liz will realise why Jack was trying to get rid of Will laughing out loud She might realise that it was all for HER..I wonder if that will piss her off..or maybe even flatter her big grin...maybe she did actually realise why Jack did it in movie 2 and that gave her all the more reason to see him as a greater temptation to her..

Last edited by LovelyOne on Aug 10th, 2006 at 11:48 PM

Old Post Aug 10th, 2006 11:43 PM
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diddly
DIVING

Gender: Female
Location: Underwater chasing a Great White


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Old Post Aug 10th, 2006 11:44 PM
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random21
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haha yet ANOTHER jack/elizabeth thread. its soo hard to follow all them lol. anyways i agree with basically everything you guys said. i think that elizabeth will be flattered that jack did everything for her, not pissed. but she could think that jack was being selfish, but i mean come on. its for HER.

and you guys are right. look at jacks reaction when he sees will come back from the dutchman. he is always trying to get rid of her. and IMO he looks kinda jealous when will and liz were kissing.

theres like 473289164 clues that lead to jack/liz. i dont know how they wouldnt be together?


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Old Post Aug 11th, 2006 12:55 AM
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katelovespirate
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sometimes girls feel like they have to be noble and give up the hott man for the good guy. i dont know why. i think thats they dumbest thing ever. but its still out there.

speaking of the kiss: Jack is INCREDIBLY vulnerable in this scene. I think that's what causes him to call Liz a pirate actually... not just because she tricked him, because she's done that before, but because she really, REALLY got inside him, got him to open up, caught him off guard and took away his defenses, and THEN tricked him... ya know?
Jack is just a player- so normally, he would probably be pretty aggressive in a situation like that. But Liz is actually the aggressive one, Jack is pretty vulnerable or something... its lovely.

In the curiosity scene, when Liz is practically begging Jack to kiss her, she has her tongue ready and everything. LOL.

Old Post Aug 11th, 2006 01:35 AM
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diddly
DIVING

Gender: Female
Location: Underwater chasing a Great White

like I said before,.. i never get romantics,.. but I'll try to follow/learn reading


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Old Post Aug 11th, 2006 03:14 AM
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LovelyOne
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by katelovespirate
sometimes girls feel like they have to be noble and give up the hott man for the good guy. i dont know why. i think thats they dumbest thing ever. but its still out there.

speaking of the kiss: Jack is INCREDIBLY vulnerable in this scene. I think that's what causes him to call Liz a pirate actually... not just because she tricked him, because she's done that before, but because she really, REALLY got inside him, got him to open up, caught him off guard and took away his defenses, and THEN tricked him... ya know?
Jack is just a player- so normally, he would probably be pretty aggressive in a situation like that. But Liz is actually the aggressive one, Jack is pretty vulnerable or something... its lovely.

In the curiosity scene, when Liz is practically begging Jack to kiss her, she has her tongue ready and everything. LOL.


LMFAO!! *goes to watch that scene again* I never saw her getting her tongue ready in that scene..

I thought he just called her pirate because he knew she would come over to his side...thats why he was smiling because he was right about what he said to her before..he had won her over...I have a bit of a feeling Jack knew something was a little fishy..but he let it play out because he wanted to see if he had won her over .... he let her take complete control of him in that scene meaning that everything she did SHE wanted, he didnt push anything on her...it wasnt him doing it to her..it was like validation to him that Liz wants him.

AHA also in the curiosity scene..watch out for that little smile of excitment on Liz's face just as Jack turns around and gets ready to kiss her..laughing out loud

Last edited by LovelyOne on Aug 11th, 2006 at 01:59 PM

Old Post Aug 11th, 2006 01:52 PM
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lovethemtigers
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You know something else I've been thinking about....It's not so much that Jack's not a good sailor, I mean look how he outsmarted the Commodore when stealing the Interceptor - to me that is one of Jack's finest moments "that's got to be the Best Pirate I have ever seen." and commodore: "And so it would seem." I love that part - the smile Jack flashes over his shoulder - and then when he tells will "Can you sail under the command of a pirate, or can you not?" all of Jack's clever plans run afoul - because of who? Stupid Bloody Will!!! I love that part on the deleted scenes on the island - he must say that to Elizabeth about three times....

anyways, I think Jack's problem is deep down inside he is too much of a good man - just as Barboorsa accuses him of in POTC 1 - he tells Jack that's his problem, he's too kind hearted, basically....Barboorsa says a man's easier to deal with dead...or something like that...

Because he is a good man - he is tricked twice by what vexes him most - Elizabeth - she tricks him into getting drunk and then she tricks him with the Kiss....Jack is very vunerable with Elizabeth - who would have ever thought that the roguish, happy go-lucky Pirate could be so vexed by a woman - it's kind of interesting isn't it? HA Love it....can't wait to see POTC 3 and how this will all shape out....

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Old Post Aug 11th, 2006 02:04 PM
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LovelyOne
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Vexed means you are angry or displeased with something...he's not angry at Liz towards the end at all..He was during the first movie though..thats because he didn't have the same feelings for her then like he did later on..same goes for Liz...

I think the fact she did that to him again and then we see that the after shock was DIFFERENT to how it was in movie 1, confirmed that their feelings for one another have completley changed since movie 1

Last edited by LovelyOne on Aug 11th, 2006 at 02:11 PM

Old Post Aug 11th, 2006 02:07 PM
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lovethemtigers
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I'm not sure I agree with the theory that he knows what she is up to, I think after his hand is shackled then he's like "HA, so she has come over to my side, after all....she has done something very piratey...instead of noble.....that's why he is smiling, Jack has won her and now he knows it, she just proved it to him....That's why he is able to face the Kraken like a man, all brave and stuff.....cuz earlier he cowers everytime the Kraken is mentioned - now all of a sudden he's brave beyond belief! The love of a good woman......Love It.

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Old Post Aug 11th, 2006 02:10 PM
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LovelyOne
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I agree actually...He probably didnt know she was about to trick him..Its only because he knows she's done it before to him that makes me think that..

Also..if anyone shows signs of being vexed with Liz..Its Will at the end..

Also when he say's "what vexes all men?" to Tia and tia smiles as if she knows whats going to happen with Will/Liz and says "what INDEED"..she knows Liz is going to be trouble for him..Will is going to get angry with her..

Old Post Aug 11th, 2006 02:15 PM
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lovethemtigers
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Vex also means to perplex - confuse, disorient....Jack does not think clearly when he is bedazzled by Elizabeth is what I mean when I say that.....


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Old Post Aug 11th, 2006 02:15 PM
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lovethemtigers
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by LovelyOne
Come to think of it..if anyone shows signs of being vexed with Liz..Its Will at the end..

Also when he say's "what vexes all men?" to Tia and tia smiles as if she knows whats going to happen with Will/Liz and says "what INDEED"..she knows Liz is going to be trouble for him..Will is going to get angry with her..


Oh, I see good point...I hadn't thought of it that way...Hey, look at this picture of Will and Tia -

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Old Post Aug 11th, 2006 02:17 PM
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LovelyOne
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AND yeah! you are so right about him being MASSIVELY confident as SOON as Liz just came down to his level ..then he gets his damn HAT BACK right at the end (meaning Liz) Liz just gave him all the strength and confidence he needed..She totally symbolizes the missing part of him that makes him feel confident..

Yes that pic of Will/Tia is quite...meaningful I think..Tia knows him inside and out.

Last edited by LovelyOne on Aug 11th, 2006 at 02:29 PM

Old Post Aug 11th, 2006 02:18 PM
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LovelyOne
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Also..I notice that Jack gave the rifle to to Gibbs just as he says to him "abandon ship into the longboat" as if it was an order to Gibbs..was this a hint that Jack was going to stay anyway? Giving the source of protection to Gibbs his right hand man whilst he goes and walks back to look at the pearl? He never says we'll abandon ship..he says it TO him as if he's not going to go with them...

Also when people are saying to him "its a lot of open water" in a scared kind of way. His face looks as if he is contemplating something in his mind "shall I stay and give them a chance?" I mean he just did something VERY noble for Liz because of his good nature..I feel that he might have stayed anyway..

Last edited by LovelyOne on Aug 11th, 2006 at 02:37 PM

Old Post Aug 11th, 2006 02:34 PM
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