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PLEASE READ- LIGHT SIDE INFO- Jedi Jurisdiction
Started by: Ushgarak

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Ushgarak
Paladin

Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

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PLEASE READ- LIGHT SIDE INFO- Jedi Jurisdiction

Had a long conversation with yerssot tonight about what powers the Jedi actually have; yerssot seems convinced that you guys have power and authority on Damagran even though it is outside the Republic.

Now, aside from saying that this is my game, I say you don't and that is an end to it, I hope these examples I made for yerssot will help clarify how all this works. Feel free to comment!

-
Ok, first of all, say that I, as a person, decide that I am going to police the whole world. I think you have done something wrong. I travel to Belgium and take you for interrogation. You would, of course, tell me to piss off and say that I have no power and right to do such a thing, of course!

Now, say that I get together with my nine friends, and we call ourselves Jedi. And we all go after people we suspect are criminals in Belgium. All of you would tell us to piss off- it doesn't matter who we are, we don't have any power!

Now, say that my nine 'Jedi' friends of mine, and myself, are all nice people and are greatly interested in Peace and Justice. But that doesn't make any difference does it? You would still think "Well, that's very nice... but it still doesn't give you the right to interrogate me if I don't want you to!"

Now, say us ten Jedi all have special powers and have lightsabres that we are very dangerous with. We come to Belgium and we FORCE the people who we suspect of being criminals, including you, into interrogation. Now you would HAVE to come with us, because you do not have the power to stop us. But wouldn't you be thinking this is wrong? That we are FORCING you into this? Would you not also hope that some Belgian policemen would try to stop us, and try to rescue you?

Now, say the United Kingdom decides to recognise the Jedi as policemen. Great! We can now legally arrest all these criminals in the UK! But if we came to Belgium and tried to do it, you would say "Well, it doesn't matter what the UK says, you still aren't police here!" And if we said "Ah, but we ARE, because we have the right to be!", and forced you to come with us again, you would STILL be thinking that we are in the wrong, we are forcing you to come, we have no authority in Belgium (no matter WHAT we say!) and you would hope to be rescued by the police.

Now, say Belgium ALSO accepts the Jedi as policemen. Great! Just as Kamino clearly accepts the authority of the Jedi in AOTC. But no-one MADE Belgium accept the authority if the Jedi. They only did it because they wanted to. It would be wrong to force them to do it! And now if I came to interrogate you, you would think "Ah, well, they are now legally policemen in Belgium... I had better go with them!". And we would be expected to do things right and properly.

But if I go to Germany to arrest people... the problems start again! I would be told to piss off. And I might protest "But the UK and Belgium let me arrest people!" And they would say back "So? I don't care what they let you do, WE do not!" And again, if I tried to force the issue I could, but I would expect resistance.

This is the exact situation we have in the current game. The Jedi have police powers inside the Republic. Outside the Republic, any planet that accepts the Jedi will allow them to operate there- like Kamino. But any planet that does NOT recogniser them- like Damagran- means they have NO power on that planet, and anything they try to do they will have to FORCE their way into doing it, and that can be construed as being very wrong indeed!

And to extend the metaphor further, Faylar is Hitler. It doesn't matter how evil he is, while he is taking over Germany, no policemen or soldiers from Britain can or will try and stop him. Only when he invades OTHER countries is anything done! And that all seems very good and logical, doesn't it?

Likewise here. You have this difficult moral problem that this bastard Faylar is doing horrible things- but as the elected leader of a people who do not recognise your right to enforce the law, what exactly can you do? Gundy has decided that Faylar's droid army is a step too far and wants it stopped, but I rather hope everyone can now see why just arresting Faylar is not really inisde your powers. If you do so, the Republic will simply let him go and you could end up in trouble.

UNLESS, as the Council told you, you have direct evidence that he is acting against the Republic.


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Old Post Jul 1st, 2002 12:22 AM
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yerssot
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ow great, NOW I see you posted this in a thread too!!
Well, read your email, that way I have it a bit easier

Old Post Jul 1st, 2002 06:30 AM
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Gundark
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Its all very logical, especially the way Ush has presented his analogy. The Jedi are not a group of super bullies. In TPM, Qui Gon and Obi Wan were attempting to make peaceful negotiations with Gunray. They didn't land on the control ship and then decide "well, lets just go and kill them and that will end this all".
They went after Gunray in defense, ONLY after he tried to kill them.

yerssot, you want to arrest Faylar. First of all, you would have to present this suggestion to either Master Kiel or myself, along with tangible proof of Faylar's direct subversion that would have to be in turn presented to the Council when (hopefully all of us) return to Coruscant. You've just spent X amount of time among Dark Jedi and Kiel and I have no clue as to what's going on inside your head, let alone the emotions that drove you to turn in the first place. Allowing you to set in motion a chain of events that could most likely speed up the separatist movement and hasten the the rumblings of the Clone Wars (much to the delight of Palpatine, I'm sure) is completely out of the question in the eyes of the Council. As Obi Wan said, "Come to your senses !!".


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Old Post Jul 1st, 2002 02:08 PM
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yerssot
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ow great! I wrote my post and my cookie (the non-eatable one) got expired! ok... here's the very short version of my post I wanted to make


difference in placing the Jedi in the galaxy/republic,
according to Ush (and you I think) the Jedi are the cops of the republic (based on common sense, see Ush's post)
according to me, the Jedi are the cops of the galaxy (based on hints from the movies)

Old Post Jul 1st, 2002 02:45 PM
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Ushgarak
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Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

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As I keep telling you, yerss, they have to be MADE cops of the Galaxy. They can't just SAY they are. The Republic says they are cops in the Republic; other worlds can say they are cops there, but worlds like Damagran say you are not, and that is an end to it!

I don't understand how you can think that the Jedi can just say "We are the cops of the Galaxy" and expect everyone to go along with that whether they want it or not. You don't just pull a switch marked "Authority on." Governments have to decide whether you have authority or not! Damagran says you do not. Who are you to override the wishes of that democratic system?


__________________



"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Jul 1st, 2002 05:17 PM
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yerssot
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We're the children of GL's mind

Old Post Jul 1st, 2002 09:03 PM
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Ushgarak
Paladin

Gender: Male
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

Co-Admin

Blimey, are we?

Anyway, point remains you are agents of the law, and that law is Republican.


__________________



"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Jul 1st, 2002 09:12 PM
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