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First Smoking Gun
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First Smoking Gun

1962 - US military drafted 'Operation Northwoods', a plan to commit terror acts in US cities, kill innocent people, hijack airplanes, and plant evidence as a way to trick the public into thinking Cuba committed an unprovoked attack against the US in order to support a war against Cuba. (ABC, Natl Security Archives)

On his own webpage, Killtown provides the quote, "Whether the Joint Chiefs' plans were rejected by McNamara in the meeting is not clear."

There is absolutely no documentation to show that this operation was ever seriously considered by the government as an option to draw Cuba into a war.

In the document, the focus of terrorist action would be Cuban refugees, military vessels and aircraft, and "harrassment" of civilian transports. Nowhere does it mention the destruction of US landmarks, buildings, or aircraft. It specifically mentions ways to avoid American civilian casualties.


1. Since it would seem desirable to use legitimate
provocation as the basis for US military intervention in Cuba
a cover and deception plan, to include requisite preliminary
actions such as has been developed in response to Task 33 c,
could be executed as an initial effort to provoke Cuban reactions. Harassment plus deceptive actions to convince the ..,
Cubans of imtninent'invasion would be emphasized. Our military
posture throughout execution of the plan will allow a rapid
change from exercise to intervention if Cuban response justifies.

2. A series of well coordinated incidents will be planned
to take place in and around Guantanamo 'ti! give genuine
appearance of being done by hostile Cuban forces.
a. Incidents to establish a credible attack (not in
chronological order) :
(1) Start rumors (many). Use clandestine radio.
(2) Land friendly Cubans in uniform "over-the-fence"
to attack on base.
(3) Capture Cuban (friendly) saboteurs inside the
base.
(4) Start riots near the base main gate (friendly
Cubans).
(5) Blow up mnunitio base; start f i r e s .
(6) Burn a i r c r a f t on a i r base (sabotage).
(7) Lob mortar shells from outside of base into base.
Some damage to installations.
(8) Capture assault teams approaching from tfie see
or vicinity of Guantanamo C i t y .
(9) Capture militia group which storms the base.
(10) Sabotage ship in harbor; large f i r e s -- napthalene
(11) Sink ship near harbor entrance. Conduct funerals
for mock-victims (may be l i e u of (10)).
b. United States would respond by executing offensive
operations to secure water and power supplies, destroying
a r t i l l e r y and mortar emplacements which threaten the base.
c. Commence large scale United States military operations.

3. A "Remember the Maine" inoident could be arranged in
several forms:
a. We could blow up a US ship i n Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba.
b. We could blow up a drone (unmanned) vessel anywhere
in the Cuban waters. We could mange t o cause such incident;
in the vicinity of Havana or Santiago as a spectacular result
of Cuban attack from [email protected] a i r or sea, or both. The presence
of Cuban planes or ships merely inve&igating the intent of '
the vessel could be f a i r l y compelling evidence that the ship
was takenunder attack. The nearness to Havana or Santiago
would add credibility especially to those people that might
have heard the blast or have seen the f i r e . The US could
follow up with an alr/sea rescue operation covered by US
fighters to "evacuate" remaining members of 8he non-existent
crew. Casualty lists i n US newspapers would cause a helpful
wave of national indignation.

4. We could develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in
the Miami area, in other Florida c i t i e s and even in Washington. The terror campaign could be pointed at Cuban refugees seeking
haven in the United States. We could sink a boatload of Cubans
enroute to Florida (real or simulated). We could foster attempts
on lives of Cuban refugees in the United States even to the
extent of wounding i n instances to be widely publicized.
Exploding a few plastic bombs in carefilly chosen spots, the
arrest of Cuban agents and the release of prepmed documents
substantiating Ouban involvenent also would be helpful in
projecting the idea of an irresponsible government.

5. A "Cuban-based, Castro~supported" f i l i b u s t e r could be
simulated against a neighboring Caribbean nation (in the vein
of the 14th of June invasion of the Dominican Republic). We
know that Castro is backing subversive efforts clandestinely
against Haitl, Dominican Republic, Guatemala, and Nicaragua at
present and possible others. These efforts can be magnified and
additional ones contrived fox exposure. For example, advantage
can be taken of the sensitivity of the Dominican A i r Force to
intrusions within their national a i r space. "Cuban" B-26 or
C-46 type aircraft oould make cane-bwming raids a t night.
Soviet Bloo incendiaries oould be found. This could be coupled
with "Cuban" messages to the Comunist undex&round in the
Dominican Republic and "Cuban1' shipments of arms which would
be found, or intercepted, on the beach.'

6. Use of MIG type a i r c r a f t by US pilots could provide
additional provocation. Harassment of c i v i l air, attacks on
surface shipping and destruct;ion of US military drone a i r c r a f t
by MIG type planes would be useful as complementary actions.
An F-86 properly painted would convince a i r passengers that they
saw a Cuban MIG, especially if the p i l o t of the transport were
t o announce such fact. The primary drawback to this suggestion
appears to be the security r i s k inherent in obtaining or modifying
an aircraft. However, reasonable copies of the MIG could
be produced from US resources in about three months.

7. Hijacking attempts against civil air and surface craft
should appear to continue as harassing measures condoned by the
government of Cuba. Concurrently, genuine defections of Cuban
civil and military air and surface craft should be encouraged.

8. It is possible to create an incident whtch will demonstrate
convincingly that a Cuban-aircraft has attacked and shot down
a chartered civil airliner enroute from the United States to
Jamaica, Guatemala, Panama or Venezuela. The destination would
be chosen only to cause the flight plan route to cross Cuba.
The passengers could be a group of college students off on a
holiday or any grouping of persons with a comon interest to
support chartering a non-scheduled flight.
a. An aircrdt at Eglin AFB would be painted and
numbezxdas an exact duplicate for a civil registered
aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the
Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be
substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be
loaded with the selected passengers, all boarded under
carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered
aircraft would be converted to a drone.
b. Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual
aircraft will be scheduled-to allow a rendezvous south of
Florida. From the rendezvous point the passenger-carrying
aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly
into an auxiliary field at Eglin AFB vrhere arrangements will
have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the
aircraft to its original s'catus. The drone aircraft
meanwhile will continue to fly the fLled flight plan. When
over Cuba the drone will being transmitting on the iinernational
distress frequency a "MAY DAY" message stating he
is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission
will be interrupted by destruction of the aircraft which will
be triggered by radio signal. This will allow ICAO radio stations in the Western Hemisphere to tell the US what has happened to the aircraft' instead of the US trying to"sell" the incident.

9. It is possible to create an incident which w i l l make it
appear that C o m i s t Cuban MIGs have destroyea a USAF aircraft
over international waters in an unprovoked attack.
a. Approximately 4 or 5 F-101 a i r c r a f t - w i l l be dispatched
in t r a i l from Homestead AFB, Florida, to the vicinity of Cuba.
Their mission w i l l be to reverse course and simulate fakir
I aircraft for an a i r defense exercise in southern Florida.
These aircraft would conduct variations of these flights a t
frequent intervals. Crews would be briefed to remain a t
least 12 miles off the Cuban coast; however, they would be required to carry live ammunition in the event that hostile actions were taken by the Cuban MIGs.
b. On 'one such flight, a pre-briefed p i l o t would f l y tail-end Charley a t considerable interval between aircraft.
While near the Cuban Island this p i l o t would broadcast that
he had been Jumped by MIGs and was going down. No other c a l l s would be made. The p i l o t would then f l y directly west a t extremely low altitude and land a t a secure base, an Eglin auxiliary. The a i r c r a f t would be met by the proper people, quickly stored and given a n3w t a i l number. The p i l o t who had performed the mission under'an alias, would resume his proper identity and return t o his normal place of business. The p i l o t and a i r c r a f t would then have disappeared. A t precisely the same time that the a i r c r a f t was . S o presumably shot down a submarine or small surface craft would disburse F-101 parts, parachute, etc., a t approximately 15 to 20 miles off the Cuban coast and depart. The pilots returning to Homestead would have a true story as f a r as they knew. Search ships and a i r c r a f t coulcl be dispatched and parts of aircraft found.


There you go, Ashtar.

Old Post Sep 15th, 2006 05:06 AM
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Classic NES
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Can you organize that and make your source clear please.


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Old Post Sep 15th, 2006 05:28 AM
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Old Post Sep 15th, 2006 05:56 AM
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Old Post Sep 15th, 2006 06:12 AM
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Kinneary
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Just wondering.

Why would the government release documents regarding plans to attack its own citizens... in the middle of planning to attack it's own citizens?


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In case we find ourselves starting to believe all the Anti-American sentiment and negativity, we should remember England 's Prime Minister Tony Blair's words during an interview. When asked by one of his Parliament members why he believes so much in America , he said:

"A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in... And how many want out."

Old Post Sep 15th, 2006 09:49 AM
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Evil Dead
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don't bother these conspiracy nuts with logic!!! These are the same people who believe the "loose change" movie floating around the net.......promoting that the government would spend hundreds of millions of dollars, involve thousands of government personel to kill 3,000 innocent civilians............but wouldn't spend the $150 it would have taken to pay one of their CIA employees for one days work to kill the one civilian and confiscate all record of the "loose change" video.


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Old Post Sep 15th, 2006 12:02 PM
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LMM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
Can you organize that and make your source clear please.


Excuse me, but I copied and pasted directly from the PDF file. This is the actual document. Nowhere does it mention harming American citizens. In fact, if you read #8, the document goes into great detail about how it will go through great lengths to avoid American casualties.

It is clear cut that the military never intended to harm its own people.

Old Post Sep 15th, 2006 12:29 PM
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Mr Parker
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Kinneary
Just wondering.

Why would the government release documents regarding plans to attack its own citizens... in the middle of planning to attack it's own citizens?


the documents were released back in 97 about operation northwood.up till 2001 there had not been a major attack from the government on its own citizens.That being the case,since it was a document going all the way back to 1962,it had been almost 40 years ago so there was no concern about it till now after 9-11 happened and information started coming out that the trade center collapse was a fairy tale version by the 9-11 commission.while researchers started investigating 9-11,some of them remembered that document and went back to it to use to show that the government of the united states has been doing things like this on its citizens dating back to the early 19th century getting us into all these phony fake wars and blaming it on someone else.


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Old Post Sep 15th, 2006 03:02 PM
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LMM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Kinneary
Just wondering.

Why would the government release documents regarding plans to attack its own citizens... in the middle of planning to attack it's own citizens?


If you read the actual document, there is no plan to attack American citizens. The operations focused on staged terrorist acts against Cuban refugees and Cuban citizens in America. Other parts of the plan called for coordinated attacks against Cuban nationals in and around Cuba made to look like an attack against its own citizens by the Cuban governement.

Old Post Sep 15th, 2006 03:13 PM
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LMM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mr Parker
the documents were released back in 97 about operation northwood.up till 2001 there had not been a major attack from the government on its own citizens.That being the case,since it was a document going all the way back to 1962,it had been almost 40 years ago so there was no concern about it till now after 9-11 happened and information started coming out that the trade center collapse was a fairy tale version by the 9-11 commission.while researchers started investigating 9-11,some of them remembered that document and went back to it to use to show that the government of the united states has been doing things like this on its citizens dating back to the early 19th century getting us into all these phony fake wars and blaming it on someone else.



Do not post in this thread unless you are providing information backed by legitimate sources, as agreed to by Ashtar. Your statement of a 9/11 "fairy tale" is not citing any legitimate sources.

You have cited no legitimate source refuting the Northwoods document, nor have you cited any legitimate source that the US government has used attacks against its own citizenship beginning in the 19th century.

If need be, I will be more than happy to conduct this debate by private message. Ashtar has complied with the list of requirements I presented. I expect every participant to follow those requirements. We will expand the requirements as we agree in the future.

Old Post Sep 15th, 2006 03:20 PM
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As I have shown the Northwoods document does not refer to attacks against American citizens. There is no documentation that this plan was ever seriously considered by the Joint Chiefs of Staff or the White House. This document is coincedental and has no link to the Septmeber 11th.

Are you ready to move on, Ashtar or would you like to submit any legitimate sources refuting the official document?

Old Post Sep 15th, 2006 04:59 PM
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Ordo
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I also believe that the man who propsed it was fired? Lemnitzer was it?


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Old Post Sep 15th, 2006 05:43 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Alliance
I also believe that the man who propsed it was fired? Lemnitzer was it?


From Killzone's website, "Whether the Joint Chiefs' plans were rejected by McNamara in the meeting is not clear. But three days later, President Kennedy told Lemnitzer directly there was virtually no possibility of ever using overt force to take Cuba, Bamford reports. Within months, Lemnitzer would be denied another term as chairman and transferred to another job."

Old Post Sep 15th, 2006 07:54 PM
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Classic NES
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by LMM
As I have shown the Northwoods document does not refer to attacks against American citizens. There is no documentation that this plan was ever seriously considered by the Joint Chiefs of Staff or the White House. This document is coincedental and has no link to the Septmeber 11th.

Are you ready to move on, Ashtar or would you like to submit any legitimate sources refuting the official document?


What's your point LMM, Because I didn't claim they attacked american landmarks and american citizens. The plan was an attempt to create a pretext for war with cuba. it involved sinking ships with cuban refugee's on board and attaking cuban refugee's in florida. Yet, somehow that's not a big deal?

It shows that america is willing to create conflicts as a pretext for war, by itself it seems like coincedental (According to you) but, combined with many other examples of the government causing problems for a pretext of war. then it no longer remians coincedental.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by LMM
From Killzone's website, "Whether the Joint Chiefs' plans were rejected by McNamara in the meeting is not clear. But three days later, President Kennedy told Lemnitzer directly there was virtually no possibility of ever using overt force to take Cuba, Bamford reports. Within months, Lemnitzer would be denied another term as chairman and transferred to another job."


Are you aware that the only reason why the plan was crushed, was because of JFK, guess what happened to him. The joint chief was serious, other wise the plan would have never been made.


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Last edited by Classic NES on Sep 15th, 2006 at 10:54 PM

Old Post Sep 15th, 2006 10:46 PM
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Classic NES
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You want example's of prior knowledge?

WTC BOMBING 1993, FBI had Prior knowledge

quote:


THE NEW YORK TIMES

* * * * *

Thursday October 28, 1993 Page A1

"Tapes Depict Proposal to Thwart
Bomb Used in Trade Center Blast"

By Ralph Blumenthal

Law-enforcement officials were told that terrorists were building
a bomb that was eventually used to blow up the World Trade Center,
and they planned to thwart the plotters by secretly substituting
harmless powder for the explosives, an informer said after
the blast.

The informer was to have helped the plotters build the bomb
and supply the fake powder, but the plan was called off by
an F.B.I. supervisor who had other ideas about how the informer,
Emad Salem, should be used, the informer said.

The account, which is given in the transcript of hundreds of
hours of tape recordings that Mr. Salem secretly made of his
talks with law-enforcement agents, portrays the authorities as
being in a far better position than previously known to foil
the February 26th bombing of New York City's tallest towers.

The explosion left six people dead, more than a thousand people
injured, and damages in excess of half-a-billion dollars.
Four men are now on trial in Manhattan Federal Court
[on charges of involvement] in that attack.

Mr. Salem, a 43-year-old former Egyptian Army officer, was used
by the Government [of the United States] to penetrate a circle
of Muslim extremists who are now charged in two bombing cases:
the World Trade Center attack, and a foiled plot to destroy
the United Nations, the Hudson River tunnels, and other
New York City landmarks. He is the crucial witness in the
second bombing case, but his work for the Government was
erratic, and for months before the World Trade Center blast,
he was feuding with th F.B.I.

Supervisor `Messed It Up'

After the bombing, he resumed his undercover work. In an
undated transcript of a conversation from that period,
Mr. Salem recounts a talk he had had earlier with an agent
about an unnamed F.B.I. supervisor who, he said,

"came and messed it up."
"He requested to meet me in the hotel,"

Mr. Salem says of the supervisor.

"He requested to make me to testify, and if he didn't
push for that, we'll be going building the bomb with
a phony powder, and grabbing the people who was
involved in it. But since you, we didn't do that."

The transcript quotes Mr. Salem as saying that he wanted to
complain to F.B.I. Headquarters in Washington about the
Bureau's failure to stop the bombing, but was dissuaded by
an agent identified as John Anticev.

Mr. Salem said Mr. Anticev had told him,

"He said, I don't think that the New York people would
like the things out of the New York Office to go to
Washington, D.C."

Another agent, identified as Nancy Floyd, does not dispute
Mr. Salem's account, but rather, appears to agree with it,
saying of the `New York people':

"Well, of course not, because they don't want to
get their butts chewed."

^ That was a new york times article, I wonder why it didn't get the front page.

EDIT: You claimed that they weren't planning to kill americans when in the documents it says: "Casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of indignation."

And you said they weren't serious, Yet, the plan is laid out in documents signed by the five Joint Chiefs


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Old Post Sep 15th, 2006 11:03 PM
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Classic NES
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So, again, how is this a coincednce?


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Last edited by Classic NES on Sep 15th, 2006 at 11:29 PM

Old Post Sep 15th, 2006 11:27 PM
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LMM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
You want example's of prior knowledge?

WTC BOMBING 1993, FBI had Prior knowledge


^ That was a new york times article, I wonder why it didn't get the front page.

EDIT: You claimed that they weren't planning to kill americans when in the documents it says: "Casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of indignation."

And you said they weren't serious, Yet, the plan is laid out in documents signed by the five Joint Chiefs


The article you posted speaks to me more about the incompetency of the FBI agent, John Anticev, rather than a plot by the US government.

Casualties of Cuban nationals living in the United States. Fake casulaties of American citizens. The plan lays out the exact procedure for protecting American citizens.

In the 9/11 attacks, real American citizens died. This document makes no mention of the intention to kill Americans to support the military's cause.

The operation never received the authorization in the highest levels of government. In fact, the writer of the proposal was removed from his position shortly after presenting his plan to the Joint Chiefs.

There is no way to connect this document with a supposed attack by the US government on its own soil, as there is nothing in the document to support such action against American citizens.

Surely, you have read the document and will agree with my assertion that this point is a very weak argument in and of itself.

Last edited by LMM on Sep 16th, 2006 at 01:04 AM

Old Post Sep 16th, 2006 01:02 AM
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Classic NES
Balloooooooooooooon

Gender: Male
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by LMM


Casualties of Cuban nationals living in the United States. Fake casulaties of American citizens. The plan lays out the exact procedure for protecting American citizens.

In the 9/11 attacks, real American citizens died. This document makes no mention of the intention to kill Americans to support the military's cause.

That would be great if I claimed they were going to attack americans, you set up your own claim which was never made by me (American citizens and american landmarks were targets) knock it down and say there isn't a problem? confused

quote: (post)
Originally posted by LMM


The operation never received the authorization in the highest levels of government. In fact, the writer of the proposal was removed from his position shortly after presenting his plan to the Joint Chiefs.


It was rejected due to president John F, kennedy's compitence, that doesn't change the fact that a plan like that was thought up. what if the president did approve it?


quote: (post)
Originally posted by LMM

There is no way to connect this document with a supposed attack by the US government on its own soil, as there is nothing in the document to support such action against American citizens.

Surely, you have read the document and will agree with my assertion that this point is a very weak argument in and of itself.



Wrong again, the plan did involve us soil. read the document, they would attack cubans living in florida.

I fail to see what your trying to debunk, A plan was made to create a pretext of war against cuba. it involved destroying us ships, highjacking civilian planes, and killing cubans. The government is willing to do all that for a pretext to war and your saying it doesn't matter confused


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Old Post Sep 16th, 2006 01:21 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
That would be great if I claimed they were going to attack americans, you set up your own claim which was never made by me (American citizens and american landmarks were targets) knock it down and say there isn't a problem? confused



It was rejected due to president John F, kennedy's compitence, that doesn't change the fact that a plan like that was thought up. what if the president did approve it?





Wrong again, the plan did involve us soil. read the document, they would attack cubans living in florida.

I fail to see what your trying to debunk, A plan was made to create a pretext of war against cuba. it involved destroying us ships, highjacking civilian planes, and killing cubans. The government is willing to do all that for a pretext to war and your saying it doesn't matter confused


The document describes actions against foreign national living in the United States and in Cuba. It does not describe the killing of American citizens to create a war between the US and another sovereign nation.

The attacks on 9/11 specifically targeted American citizens, as more than 90% of the people in the World Trade Center towers were American nationals.

I am not trying to debunk the document itself. I am debunking the connection between this document and the attacks on 9/11. This document provides no information that the US government was willing to murder its own citizens to create a war. American citizens and buildings were the target on 9/11, not foreign nationals. Would you disagree with this statement.

I am not saying that the document is not reprehensible. I am saying that this document does not provide any concrete evidence that the US government planned and executed the attacks on 9/11. Honestly, you can't tell me that you disagree with this.

Old Post Sep 16th, 2006 07:24 PM
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Classic NES
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by LMM
The document describes actions against foreign national living in the United States and in Cuba. It does not describe the killing of American citizens to create a war between the US and another sovereign nation.

The attacks on 9/11 specifically targeted American citizens, as more than 90% of the people in the World Trade Center towers were American nationals.

I am not trying to debunk the document itself. I am debunking the connection between this document and the attacks on 9/11. This document provides no information that the US government was willing to murder its own citizens to create a war. American citizens and buildings were the target on 9/11, not foreign nationals. Would you disagree with this statement.

I am not saying that the document is not reprehensible. I am saying that this document does not provide any concrete evidence that the US government planned and executed the attacks on 9/11. Honestly, you can't tell me that you disagree with this.


Despite the fact they stated this in the document: "Casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of indignation."

You claimed they took measures to avoid killing americans, where is this Stated?


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Old Post Sep 16th, 2006 10:35 PM
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