Basically, he says that by the end of their careers, Manning and Brady will be the consensus top 2 QBs ever. Period. So that got me thinking...
What's everyone's list? There's plenty of people you could add into the discussion.
Not including Brady/Manning, here's mine:
1. Dan Marino
2. Joe Montana
3. Brett Favre
4. Steve Young
5. John Elway
6. Otto Graham
7. Johnny Unitas
...I once heard the argument that, given a year or two to use modern workout techniques and to learn modern NFL offensive systems, guys like Graham and Unitas would be fine, even great QBs by today's standards. Having seen plenty of film, I'd tend to agree. The arm strength and athleticism were all there.
...
I don't hold a lack of championships against Marino. Hence, the #1. Teams win championships, not individuals. Peyton has had a bad playoff game or two, but usually he's not the reason the Colts lose. So I'd tend to have him higher than Brady too.
...
And I think I agree with Michael Smith. Peyton and Brady are the best. Unless they completely tank their careers right now, Peyton's on his way to every record in the book and Brady's on his way to as many championships as Montana, but with better stats and less talent around him.
This is a difficult thread for me to comment on as there are many QBs that I like; and thus makes it difficult for me to come up with a list....will get back on this one....toughy.
ok.. so here's my list after about 10 minutes of hardcore research
Superbowl wins don't mean that much to me, but they count for something.
1. Brett Favre
2. Dan Marino
3. Joe Montana
4. John Elway
5. Steve Young
6. Johnny Unitas
Otto Graham - who?
There's only 1 person on this list that i could find a legitimate reason for them to be number 1 and thats Brett Favre. Why is he number 1 on my list... well Dan Marino's numbers, as of this point are better than Favre's but Favre's overall play speaks for itself. He created a positive play when there was no chance of there being one.. from shovel pass's to talking smack with Warren Sapp to 4th quarter comebacks... his charisma, attitude and leadership are unparalleled, besides that of Montana's leadership. By the way, Favre will pass Marino in two key categories this year.. Completions and TD pass's. 3 straight MVP's. And oh by the way... THE STREAK 228 strait starts at the qb position is downright sick.
Marino... ehhh i could easily put him number 1 and it was a hard choice between him and favre,they have almost the same numbers, but favre has the streak, the mvp's and the superbowl so those are the tie breakers. otherwise Marino was downright the best.
Montana had JERRY RICE to throw to along with dwight clark and other hall of famers surrounding him.
Same goes for Steve Young... Jerry Rice... enough said.
John Elway.. wow i could give u a uber long analysis of why Elway is ranked where he is but... i'll give you this. he didn't win a superbowl until he got a running game. He lost of bunch of superbowls so that also goes into the equation.
Unitas.. the best qb of his era.. but thats it.. his era, the game has grown by leaps and bounds since then and i'll take any of the above over Unitas anyday. Even though he was great.
Graham... don't know much about him and i don't really care thats why i left him off the list
in 10 years.. the list will look like this.
1. Peyton Manning ( 2 superbowl wins )
2. Tom Brady ( 4 Superbowl wins)
3. Brett Favre
4. Dan Marino
5. Joe Montana
6. John Elway
the rest are insignifact by this point in time.
__________________ I've got a feva... and the only cure.... is more cowbell - Christopher Walken(SNL)
I'm sorry... but no, u must not know much about football. i can see Montana, but u do not... i repeat do not... i repeat do not put Unitas ahead of Elway Marino Favre or Staubach. And what is Bradshaw doing on that list... the defense won the championships for him. READ the creators list... it says excluding Brady and Manning, granted they belong in the discussion.. but they have so far to go in their careers its not fair to include them in the list. again.. unitas was not as good as the 4 i named.. no even close... go do 10 minutes of research like me and u'll realize that.. also u better make it ultra hardcore research because u sound like u have a disease that prevents u from thinking.
p.s. sorry for being so critical but honestly... come on.
__________________ I've got a feva... and the only cure.... is more cowbell - Christopher Walken(SNL)
Favre is actually an interesting one. BloodyHell saying he's #1 is valid, but I think he's citing the wrong reasons.
Yes, 3 MVPs. But what other QBs were truly "great" during that era? Montana, Marino, Elway, Aikman, Young, Moon, Kelly, etc. all basically peaked within a 5-years span of each other. Favre never had that type of competition. All of those guys were near the end of their careers when he won his.
You'd first have to point to the fact that Favre is, with little or no discussion, the best foul-weather QB ever. Better than Manning, Brady, Marino, Montana, anyone. If it's raining, snowing, or cold as hell....he's money.
Then you'd point to his stats. Longevity isn't everything, but he's up there with guys like Marino and Manning in terms of TDs per game and yds per game. Those count more to me than mere totals.
So yeah, you could make that case, but just in a different manner.
...
And if you don't know who Otto Graham is, shame on you. He was the first "great" QB to play football. Everyone talk about Montana/Brady's championships, but in the pre-Super Bowl era Graham went to something like 10 straight World Championships (with the Browns, I think), winning 7-8 of them. Using championships as an argument for a QB isn't the best way to go, but if we did, he'd be #1 easily.
And he had impressive stats in an era of football that was utterly dominated by the running game. Teams today pass twice as much as they did back then, so his numbers are even more impressive.
Okay, Sunshine...you made some compelling albeit harsh remarks. Now, please enlighten me as to whom you think is the greatest RB ever. Seeing that you were born in 1987, my guess is you may say Reggie Bush. Be aware: that there is only 1 answer as far as the greatest RB ever. Get it correct, and I'll take your whipping, glady. Get it wrong, and I'll dismiss your argument as someone who does not much about the history of the game.
Yes, I did not follow the threadmaker's rules...fau paux on my behalf.
hmmmmm greatest rb ever... thats a tough one... i could go on and on about gale sayers... marcus allen, emmit smith, barry sanders, walter payton, curtis martin, dorsett, marshall faulk and Orange Juice Simpson... but i'll go ahead and say Jim brown... why? he dominated his era... gained 12,000 plus yards in 9 seasons.. over 100 TD's, and only one year under 1,000 yards.. which was over 900 yards. Also, he played in 14 game season's instead of 16 games. and i know for a fact he's in the top 10 in rushing yards and rushing td's despite not being in the top 20 in attempts. Keep in mind i'm a genious and your not.
Barry Sanders would be my second choice because he was just downright incredible, with emmit and marcus allen following them.
__________________ I've got a feva... and the only cure.... is more cowbell - Christopher Walken(SNL)
oh yea and don't downtalk me about reggie bush.. he'll never be anymore than a good running back.. i think Ladanian Tomlinson will be the best RB ever when he's done.
__________________ I've got a feva... and the only cure.... is more cowbell - Christopher Walken(SNL)
Your right in the fact that favre didn't have any other qb's peak the same time that he did.. bledsoe never turned out to be much, all those that u mentioned were at the end. Aikman was just as good in 1996 as he was in 1995 so i don't get where u get that name, but is that favre's fault? i believe that i said i wasn't basing my pick on super bowls, though they counted a little. i also mentioned that marino was a close second and could easily be interchangable with favre. marino was as equal a passer as far, but the leadership and intangible quality goes in favre's favor thats what i based my pick on. as far as otto graham goes... ok your right i did not know. but my point is how much is he recognized... not very much. IF this were a superbowl era question he wouldn't even be mentioned.. but since its not he is. keep in mind there weren't that many teams and not very many dominant players before the early 1960's. Yards, td's, longevity winning %, leadership, teammates all go into the picture. so in saying that i will retract my "10 years from now list" and switch brady and peyton. because brady will have good numbers without a hall of fame receiver, whereas peyton has 2. and brady will have more championships. Feel free to pick apart my comments as i enjoy firing back at you.
__________________ I've got a feva... and the only cure.... is more cowbell - Christopher Walken(SNL)
go laugh at someone else... either that or read my reply to it and understand what i was trying to prove... argue with me, i enjoying wooping ass in a battle of knowledge, when it comes to football, i'm the the schwab... undefeatable... almost.
__________________ I've got a feva... and the only cure.... is more cowbell - Christopher Walken(SNL)
sorry ... i'm hyper, drank about 3 bottles of mountain dew and a cup of coffee this morning... when i'm not typing i'm running around my room like a mad man. BTW despite not being born until 1987, jim brown is my favorite player of all time... with favre and barry sanders a close second.
__________________ I've got a feva... and the only cure.... is more cowbell - Christopher Walken(SNL)
KMC Community Forums
Nov 3rd, 2006 04:22 AM
