DBZ Power Scaling...

So what I'm trying to do is figure out just how damn powerful the Z fighters became later on in the series (Cell and Buu sagas primarily) by using canon info...

Okay, during the 21st World Martial Arts Tournament, Jackie Chun(Roshi) possessed a PL of 180:

And he was capable of vaporizing the moon with a maximum power Kamehameha:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14411596/Dragon_Ball_v04_ch051_p097.png.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14411599/Dragon_Ball_v04_ch051_p099.png.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14411603/Dragon_Ball_v04_ch051_p100.png.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14411606/Dragon_Ball_v04_ch051_p101.png.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14411609/Dragon_Ball_v04_ch051_p102.png.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14411612/Dragon_Ball_v04_ch052_p104.png.html

---

During the Saiyan Saga, Vegeta possessed a PL of 18,000:

And was capable of destroying the earth with his full power Galick Gun:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14411580/chap233i03.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14411583/chap233i04.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14411586/chap233i06.jpg.html

---

During the Frieza Saga, base form Frieza possessed a PL of 530,000:

And stated that in his base form he easily destroyed the entire Saiyan race, along with the Saiyan home world:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14411589/DB296-02.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14411592/DB296-03.jpg.html

---

Fast-forward to the Cell Saga, and Perfect Cell possessed a PL of 4 billion(pre-Jesus resurrection):

And stated that he wielded enough power to destroy the entire solar system(post-Jesus resurrection):
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14412192/350704.gif.html

---

Super Buu possessed a PL of 32 billion:

And was able to blow holes through dimensional walls with the power of his breath alone:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14412195/410713.gif.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14412196/410801.gif.html

---

Anyway, if a PL of 18,000 is capable of destroying an entire world, does that mean Perfect Cell(PL=4 billion) wielded enough power to destroy the earth more than 200,000 times over? Does that mean Super Buu(PL=32 billion) wielded enough power to destroy the earth almost 2 million times over?

If that is in fact how DBZ power scaling works, then where would that put characters like SSJ2 Gohan? SSJ3 Gotenks? Mystic Gohan? Buu(/w/ Gohan), Vegito, etc.?

---

Ah hell, here's a quick theory on Vegito's power, but it results in a number that seems far too vast to be real...

As of the Cell Saga, SSJ Goku possessed a PL of 3 billion:

Per the Daizenshuu, fusions work more like multiplication rather than addition--- this means Vegito's cumulative power would have been like multiplying Goku's PL by Vegeta's PL. The Daizenshuu also states that a SSJ2 is 2x more powerful than a SSJ1:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14412454/SaiyanFusion_PLs.jpg.html
(In the Buu saga, both Goku and Vegeta could transform into a SSJ2.)

Regardless, lets just assume that each of their PL's was 3 billion during the Buu saga(which is an extremely conservative estimate.) 3,000,000,000*3,000,000,000=9.e+18, which means SSJ Vegito would have wielded enough power to destroy the earth 500,000,000,000,000 times over! And if Vegito transformed into a SSJ2(which can be argued) then the above figures would be DOUBLED! 😱

But like I said: a PL of that magnitude seems WAY too vast to be real... Even though it is based on canon info, it is extremely hard to believe a being THAT powerful existed in the DBZ-verse.

Anyway, I'd just like to get a general consensus here. Does my power scaling method fit, or is it way off? What do you guys think?

Broly wins

Originally posted by juggerman
Broly wins

😆 😆 😆

Oh man...I laughed pretty hard.

Originally posted by Galan007
So what I'm trying to do is figure out just how damn powerful the Z fighters became later on in the series (Cell and Buu sagas primarily) by using canon info...

Okay, during the 21st World Martial Arts Tournament, Jackie Chun(Roshi) possessed a PL of 180:

And he was capable of vaporizing the moon with a maximum power Kamehameha:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14411596/Dragon_Ball_v04_ch051_p097.png.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14411599/Dragon_Ball_v04_ch051_p099.png.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14411603/Dragon_Ball_v04_ch051_p100.png.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14411606/Dragon_Ball_v04_ch051_p101.png.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14411609/Dragon_Ball_v04_ch051_p102.png.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14411612/Dragon_Ball_v04_ch052_p104.png.html

---

During the Saiyan Saga, Vegeta possessed a PL of 18,000:

And was capable of destroying the earth with his full power Galick Gun:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14411580/chap233i03.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14411583/chap233i04.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14411586/chap233i06.jpg.html

---

During the Frieza Saga, base form Frieza possessed a PL of 530,000:

And stated that in his base form he easily destroyed the entire Saiyan race, along with the Saiyan home world:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14411589/DB296-02.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14411592/DB296-03.jpg.html

---

Fast-forward to the Cell Saga, and Perfect Cell possessed a PL of 4 billion(pre-Jesus resurrection):

And stated that he wielded enough power to destroy the entire solar system(post-Jesus resurrection):
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14412192/350704.gif.html

---

Super Buu possessed a PL of 32 billion:

And was able to blow holes through dimensional walls with the power of his breath alone:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14412195/410713.gif.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14412196/410801.gif.html

---

Anyway, if a PL of 18,000 is capable of destroying an entire world, does that mean Perfect Cell(PL=4 billion) wielded enough power to destroy the earth more than 200,000 times over? Does that mean Super Buu(PL=32 billion) wielded enough power to destroy the earth almost 2 million times over?

If that is in fact how DBZ power scaling works, then where would that put characters like SSJ2 Gohan? SSJ3 Gotenks? Mystic Gohan? Buu(/w/ Gohan), Vegito, etc.?

---

Ah hell, here's a quick theory on Vegito's power, but it results in a number that seems far too vast to be real...

As of the Cell Saga, SSJ Goku possessed a PL of 3 billion:

Per the Daizenshuu, fusions work more like multiplication rather than addition--- this means Vegito's cumulative power would have been like multiplying Goku's PL by Vegeta's PL. The Daizenshuu also states that a SSJ2 is 2x more powerful than a SSJ1:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14412454/SaiyanFusion_PLs.jpg.html
(In the Buu saga, both Goku and Vegeta could transform into a SSJ2.)

Regardless, lets just assume that each of their PL's was 3 billion during the Buu saga(which is an extremely conservative estimate.) 3,000,000,000*3,000,000,000=9.e+18, which means SSJ Vegito would have wielded enough power to destroy the earth 500,000,000,000,000 times over! And if Vegito transformed into a SSJ2(which can be argued) then the above figures would be DOUBLED! 😱

But like I said: a PL of that magnitude seems WAY too vast to be real... Even though it is based on canon info, it is extremely hard to believe a being THAT powerful existed in the DBZ-verse.

Anyway, I'd just like to get a general consensus here. Does my power scaling method fit, or is it way off? What do you guys think?

Dude, where are you getting those scans that show Power Level's in the billions?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Dude, where are you getting those scans that show Power Level's in the billions?

I think the reason Toriyama stopped using power levels, with the exception of Babidi's version of it, is because the numbers were getting ridiculous.

As for that list, If ssj3 Gokou is 24 million, and ssj3 is 4x that of ssj2 like it's suppose to be which is 2x that of ssj. wouldn't that make Gokou the same level he was in Cell Saga at base and ssj in the Buu Saga? Or am I completely wrong?

Originally posted by Galan007
I've always referenced this guide:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14413009/All_Character_PLs.jpg.html

Is that legit?

I have never seen that.

Also, ChiChi....rocks! I knew she was strong.

But there are several characters missing. Where is Super Gohan (Mystic)? Where is SSJ2 Gohan? Where is SSJ3 Goku? What about resurrected Cell? What about trained up Piccolo that came out of the HBTC (Goku said he was a lot stronger...but still not enough to take on Perfect Cell)?

Also, if this is legit, then that settles the argument of who is stronger: Frieza or King Cold. Clearly, Frieza is stronger. His mecha form was supposed to be significantly stronger, as well.

Originally posted by Kento
As for that list, If ssj3 Gokou is 24 million, and ssj3 is 4x that of ssj2 like it's suppose to be which is 2x that of ssj. wouldn't that make Gokou the same level he was in Cell Saga at base and ssj in the Buu Saga? Or am I completely wrong?

If you're still assuming that SSJ is a x50 bump...(I also assume you meant billion).

Let us try:

24,000,000,000/4/2/50=60,000,000

So, no. His original SSJ form, when first attained, is still roughly 3x as powerful as his base form by the time he is able to reach the SSJ3 state.

However, the FPSSJ state is much much stronger than his first SSJ state...so I think that throws everything out of whack.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Is that legit?

I have never seen that.

Originally posted by dadudemon

If you're still assuming that SSJ is a x50 bump...(I also assume you meant billion).

Let us try:

24,000,000,000/4/2/50=60,000,000

So, no. His original SSJ form, when first attained, is still roughly 3x as powerful as his base form by the time he is able to reach the SSJ3 state.

However, the FPSSJ state is much much stronger than his first SSJ state...so I think that throws everything out of whack.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Is that legit?

I have never seen that.

And in the Buu Saga, Babidi stated that Yakon's power registered at 800 kilis, and SSJ Goku(before powering up as a SSJ) registered at 3,000 kilis:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14415416/380603.gif.html
And as I said, after that initial kili reading, Goku powered up [a lot] more.

So even though it was never stated exactly what a "kili" is, it is very coincidental that, per the guide I posted, Yakon's PL is 800,000,000, and SSJ Goku's is 3 billion. Based on that, 1 kili=a PL of 1 million. That fits too well to be untrue, imo.

Originally posted by dadudemon
But there are several characters missing. Where is Super Gohan (Mystic)? Where is SSJ2 Gohan? Where is SSJ3 Goku? What about resurrected Cell? What about trained up Piccolo that came out of the HBTC (Goku said he was a lot stronger...but still not enough to take on Perfect Cell)?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Also, if this is legit, then that settles the argument of who is stronger: Frieza or King Cold. Clearly, Frieza is stronger. His mecha form was supposed to be significantly stronger, as well.

...But as we saw them, Frieza>>Cold.

Originally posted by Galan007
And in the Buu Saga, Babidi stated that Yakon's power registered at 800 kilis, and SSJ Goku(before powering up as a SSJ) registered at 3,000 kilis:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14415412/380602.gif.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14415416/380603.gif.html
And as I said, after that initial kili reading, Goku powered up [a lot] more.
.

I'll elaborate on this later.

Originally posted by Astner
Anyway my point is that it's not difficult to do, you simply have to explain what you mean by power.

So if a PL of 18,000 is enough to destroy the earth, then what scale of damage would a PL of 4 billion(for example) be able to cause? From my point of view, Cell's boast that he could destroy the entire solar system was likely quite accurate.

Originally posted by Galan007
My question is simple:
We know that a PL of 18,000 is sufficient to destroy a planet(which makes sense given that Roshi, with a PL of 180, destroyed the moon.)

So if a PL of 18,000 is enough to destroy the earth, then what scale of damage would a PL of 4 billion(for example) be able to cause? From my point of view, Cell's boast that he could destroy the entire solar system was likely quite accurate.

If 180 can vaporize the moon in a second, then you don't need that much more to destroy the planet. Unless "destroy" has to be "vaporized in a second."

I explained this in the other thread. You'd be able to produce (4⋿9/1.8⋿4)^2.2 + res. Where res is the residual, which in this case is value greater than 0.

So Cell would be able to pump out at least 5.84⋿11 times more energy than Vegeta.

For comparison, going by gravitational binding energy it takes 1.02⋿9 times more energy to destroy the sun than it does to destroy the earth. So he should be able to do with ease. Especially since earth is proportionally reenforced by stronger chemical bindings than the sun.

Originally posted by Robtard
If 180 can vaporize the moon in a second, then you don't need that much more to destroy the planet. Unless "destroy" has to be "vaporized in a second."

Originally posted by Astner
I explained this in the other thread. You'd be able to produce (4⋿9/1.8⋿4)^2.2 + res. Where res is the residual, which in this case is value greater than 0.

So Cell would be able to pump out at least 5.84⋿11 times more energy than Vegeta.

For comparison, going by gravitational binding energy it takes 1.02⋿9 times more energy to destroy the sun than it does to destroy the earth. So he should be able to do with ease. Especially since earth is proportionally reenforced by stronger chemical bindings than the sun.

Originally posted by Galan007
Per the Daizenshuu, fusions work more like multiplication rather than addition--- this means Vegito's cumulative power would have been like multiplying Goku's PL by Vegeta's PL. The Daizenshuu also states that a SSJ2 is 2x more powerful than a SSJ1:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14412454/SaiyanFusion_PLs.jpg.html
(In the Buu saga, both Goku and Vegeta could transform into a SSJ2.)

Regardless, lets just assume that each of their PL's was 3 billion during the Buu saga(which is an extremely conservative estimate.) 3,000,000,000*3,000,000,000=9.e+18, which means SSJ Vegito would have wielded enough power to destroy the earth 500,000,000,000,000 times over! And if Vegito transformed into a SSJ2(which can be argued) then the above figures would be DOUBLED!

Originally posted by john allerdyce
holy shit! that is unreal amounts of power. hard to even grasp.

If 2 beings who each possess a PL of 1,000,000 engage in a proper Potara fusion then, per the Daizenshuu, the end result would theoretically possess a PL of 1 TRILLION(1,000,000*1,000,000=1,000,000,000,000.) So if the individual beings were to already possess PLs in the billions(which Goku and Vegeta did), then I can totally understand the hesitation in accepting what the Daizenshuu states, as the PL of that fusion would be lulz-worthy high.

Also keep in mind that Potara fusion isn't a surefire path to vast power. The individuals who fuse have to be a good fit, otherwise the end result may actually be weaker than the individual components. /shrug

So galan in comic tier terms what level would you put the likes of Vegito?

If Vegeto's power level truly was Vegeta's PL x Goku's PL, then he'd be nearly unquantifiable in comic book terms.

Power levels were dropped in the manga for a reason.

Originally posted by Kento
Yes I meant billion haha. And I mean if the Gokou that link shows in ssj at 3 billion is during the Cell Games, wouldn't that mean that in those 7 years Gokou didn't get any stronger.

I think I see what you mean.

3 Billion * 2 * 4 = 24,000,000,000

Yes. That is exactly what that means: no power increase. I guess that's why that scan can't be right/is non-canon. I suspected it was non-canon when I saw it. The Dragonball wiki, where the biggest and nerdiest fans keep up to date, don't list that.