What did you guys think about the reveal of those two? Felt sudden and put of nowhere. Reading it I just went "Ah, I see" from how it was presented. Have to agree that that was not the Colossal Titan I was expecting. I understand him being slow given the frame, and sort of foreshadowed with Eren's attack, but this is the biggest known threat in both senses.
Oh, and dadude, don't think the Ape Titan is a shifter. If he is not a human one. Questioning whether or not the guy was frozen with fear could speak the same language points to this.
"Gonna need more chloroform..."
"If you look down on us, judge us, condemn us... then you shall fear us!"
It was hilarious, actually. When I saw those two talking in the background about it, and revealing it so nonchalantly, I lol'd.
I thought, "WTF? haha...guess that cuts down about 10-20 chapters of more plot development with this reveal."
I think the Ape Titan is a shifter that has remained in Titan form for many years. 60+. I think he is one of the original Titans and possibly involved in the original military science plans that turned humanity into Titans.
Mark my words: we are dealing with 3 factions.
1. Last City Humans.
2. The Village Humans.
3. Original Military Science Humans (Ape Titan's people/group).
Though on a re-read of the earlier bits, there was *clearly* a scene where the three of 'em were talking about the Armored Titan making an appearance (right before Eren did his thing), just with the other scout present not realizing it.
I don't think this war they want to wage against the central police will end well for humanity. I think the author should focus more on the third-human group, the military group that sent human-titan hybrids to attack the country.
Talking about the Ape Titan? They know relatively little about that group lol.
Right now the Central Police is causing problems and the characters seem to believe efforts to learn more about Eren and everything in general is impeded by them. So I understand why the characters are clashing.
No but seriously I get romantic vibes from Historia and Eren. Am I alone in this?
Remember, I think that there are possibly 4 groups we are dealing with, here:
1-a. The majority of humans in the massive walled country. This is 1 group.
1-b. There is a subgroup of the above: the humans that wish to separate from them.
2. The military group that Bertolt, Reiner, and Annie serve.
3. The group that the Ape-Titan belongs to.
I should note that group 2, above, are actually the good guys. They are the ones trying to REALLY save humanity and reclaim everything back from the titans. Remember, Ymir said that Reiner and Bertholdt's mission was to learn about the Ape Titan and report back their findings:
IMO, the Ape Titan and his group are the ones that turned humans into Titans. Maybe accidentally. Maybe intentionally. Maybe they are aliens or failed science experiments from 100+ years ago. But they are the true enemies of this story. So group 3 are the antagonists. Group 2, who I think Eren's father associated with or even currently belongs to, are the protagonists. Group 1-a are another antagonist group (the government and military police, mainly) but will fade as the story progresses.
Last edited by dadudemon on Feb 8th, 2014 at 05:06 AM
I also started leaning on the idea that those running things behind the wall were deeply corrupted and are hiding HUGE secrets, and that the titan soldiers and their associates are actually going to turn out to be the true heroes (Eren will probably witness this corruption firsthand and join the titan soldier group) But I pretty much agree with that idea and the way you put it made what I was thinking a whole lot clearer.
I'm aware of your fan theory. Not saying it is wrong or right but the characters in universe do not have the luxuries you and I, as humble readers, have. They aren't expecting a twist where Reiner and his pals are the good guys lol.
They also don't really have the ability to choose what to focus on. The military group is what presents an immediate problem to them right now and so that is who they, and the writer, focus on. It also works from a narrative perspective to keep us away from the titans so we're more excited when they show back up.
Incidentally I'm not a fan of this idea where Reiner and his butt buddies are really good guys. They've killed tons of humans. Annie killed a ton of the Survey Corps while Reiner and Bertolt are responsible for every death in the beginning of the series since they destroyed the walls. If the manga goes in that direction it will have a really tough sell...at least with me.
I really would not count on Eren siding with these guys. The dude has a pathological desire to just kill titans and he seems to really hate Reiner's pals.
From their (the 2nd group I mentioned)perspective, the humans inside of the wall are evil, dishonest, and murderers. From a war perspective, the civilians living in that system are just as guilty because they support that system: it would fail if every civilian human refused to work (they would die but so would everyone else).
This is how warring has been done for thousands of years among humans.
Also, what was the real reason they broke the wall?
Also, from what we can tell from their dialogue, they may not have been fully in control of their actions*. They may have been picked up AFTER they broke the wall: that may not have been part of the second group's military plans. It could have also been suggestions (like hypnotic suggestions) similar to Eren's situation from his father. Also, they seem to regret doing it.
When Eren finds out his dad has been working for them....
That only works if the dishonesty and corrupt humans were working publicly. People like Eren's mother aren't supporting whatever bad things the government might be doing because they don't know what is going on. You could say this is irrelevant in the eyes of group 2 but to the reader it is not. I will never support a group that kills normal people instead of the ones responsible. That is why people hate Sasuke for wanting to kill everyone in the village lol.
Because they were told to and so they did it. Sure they might have been controlled but until such a idea is posited we assume they did so out of their own free will. Even if someone threatened Bertolt with death if he didn't kick the wall he would still be placing his own life above the normal citizens.
Some actions they don't seem to be in control of, like eating people, but Annie seemed pretty in control of herself the entire time as did the others. Bertolt at least displays clear signs of intelligence in his titan form since he not only broke the wall but also went for the defensive cannons at Trost. Also whether they regret their actions or not is mostly irrelevant to me. They did horrible things and I really have no sympathy for them at this point lol. I think Eren is perfectly correct in wanting to just kill them.
Honestly if that happened I would just think Eren would fight his dad too lol. If Eren thinks you're scum he'll kill you. He hates Reiner and Bertolt more than I think I've ever seen him hate anyone. I can't see Eren siding with them until something really drastic happens lol.
Wait what kind of corruption we talking about? The military police being somewhat likes bullies is rather well known but I'm thinking corruption like people inside the walls knowing where titans come from and such.
He might do an enemy mine with them but I don't see why he'd ever come around to liking them. Why do you think they're the heroes again?