I've never gotten a straight answer for his power level or a decent approximation either. What's his power level or what character is he closest to in strength? Base King Kai not After his fusion with Kibito
__________________ "Happiness is a lie. Life is horror. The light is always dying all across the universe. The last star will flicker out someday, when it does, all that remains is shadow. And I will be its king!"'-Amahl Farouk
I'd say he was as powerful as Vegeta after his first training session in the Time Chamber. Not quite as powerful as a FPSSJ but probably around ASSJ (SSJ2).
Well, I change my mind. Maybe somewhere between Imperfect Cell and Grade 2 Vegeta.
If you want something comparable on a power-gap, look at Goku vs. Recome. Goku put down Recoome in one strike.
There's also an argument that Eastern Supreme Kai is being compared to first form Frieza, not final form (4th form) when it came to the "1000 times stronger" comment.
We do know he is weaker than SSJ2 young adult Gohan. We do know he is stronger than Piccolo and that Piccolo was at least as strong as Android 17 by that time (probably stronger due to training).
So we do have a nice range.
Stronger than Android 17 but weaker than young adult SSJ2 Gohan.
But that difference in power is quite large.
But he seems to or appears to be closer in power to ASSJ Vegeta than he does SSJ2 young adult Gohan. That's my opinion...he was the weakest Supreme Kai.
The "1,000x stronger than Freeza" statement is from the anime only.
The canon line from VIZ merely has Kaioshin state that each of the 5 original Kaioshin(which would include himself) could have "felled Freeza with one blow": (please log in to view the image)
I think by the end of the Cell saga, Piccolo was at least on par with Imperfect Cell(arguably greater), given that he was stated to have become "much stronger" after training in the RoSaT, and was also able to fight the Cell Junior without being KO'd/incapacitated--even after Cell gave them the order to kill(something only Trunks and Vegeta were able to duplicate.)
So by the time of the Boo saga(7 years later), I don't see why he wouldn't be around ASSJ Vegeta-level at the very least, given that he kept up with his training over the years. This means Kaioshin > Picccolo ~/> ASSJ Vegeta.
As for SSJ2 Gohan(Boo-era), he was ~ Dabra, who was ~/> Perfect Cell, who was > Kaioshin.
So yeah, I think Kaioshin was probably a smidge below FPSSJ Goku(Cell Games.) This would put him comfortably beyond the likes of Piccolo, comfortably below Dabra/SSJ2 Gohan, and *should* still be enough to down Freeza with one strike.
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Last edited by Galan007 on Aug 10th, 2015 at 12:03 AM
Supreme Kai seemed about as strong as Vegeta during the Cell saga. Since he admitted to being inferior to Dabura, who was said to be as strong as Perfect Cell.
Wait, what Galan?
Super Vegeta would effortlessly destroy Freeza with the mere air of his punches.
Freeza was weaksauce by the time #19 and #20 showed up.
^ At 23rd Budokai, Goku easily got rid of Chi-Chi with the air generated by his fist.
Chapter: 171, P10.4
Context: after Goku blows Chi-Chi out of the ring, seemingly without doing anything
Kame-sennin: “He didn’t just do nothing...Goku probably pumped his fist with stupendous force…The shockwave-like thing created then blew the girl away before she had time to avoid it…”
Clearly here his intent was not to kill her, however he could have easily done so if he wanted.
Even if Goku here was suppressed in power, the gap between his maximum strength and Chi-Chi's is way smaller than the gap there is between Super Vegeta and 100% Freeza; in fact, as commented by Master Roshi himself, Chi-Chi was no joke at all:
Chapter: 171, P4.1
Kame-sennin: “I don’t know quite what’s going on here, but that girl is quite a master…Wh-what’s more, [her style] resembles my own Kame-sen School…”
Post Yardrat Ssj Goku would likely be more than enough to end 100% Freeza in one blow, while a causal shockwave from Super Vegeta's hand would be more than enough to obliterate Freeza into white paste.
I don't care what Goku did to Chi-Chi, lol. That literally could not be more irrelevant.
Freeza survived a planet-busting detonation at ground zero, while he was cut in half AND almost entirely depleted of ki. That said, the "the mere air of Vegeta's punches" certainly do not generate the amount of power required to kill Freeza... Nor do "his thoughts", lol.
Those are laughable assertions to say the least.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Oct 12th, 2015 at 02:33 PM
Frieza durability is crazy. Well, the durability of beings within his tier/power level.
Frieza tells us while being at full power that if he is caught in the explosion of Namek detonation, the only thing it will do is take away some of his power.
Maybe you refuse to care about evidence because of your "blind love" for Freeza. After all, you yourself admitted it in your first post.
Yet the almighty Freeza, in a state infinitely superior to his self half-dead body, was cut like butter by Ssj Trunks' sword, the same sword which casually broke on #18's arm, even if used by an even stronger Ssj Trunks.
So, #18's arm > sword cut > planet explosion here?
Or, maybe, by means of their battle power and Ki, Z warriors who are ridiculously inferior to Super Vegeta's level of power can effortlessly destroy a being who took a planet explosion on his face?
Compared to the horrible one-hit-death that Freeza would suffer from the hands of Super Vegeta, the demise of Kyui on Namek, by means of an early Namek saga Vegeta, could be considered heroic and honorable.
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Last edited by Sj_Sharp on Oct 12th, 2015 at 04:14 PM
You're getting angry for no reason. Cutting/piercing attacks are entirely different than general blast attacks. Most DBZ fans are well aware of this. That's why the Destructo Disk(a cutting attack), for example, is so effective, and has consistently allowed Krillin to step WAY beyond his weight class. IOW, characters are typically much less resistant to cutting attacks then they are to blast attacks/explosions and whatnot.
Anywho, there is ZERO proof that "the mere air of Vegeta's punches" would kill Freeza, like you said. These red herrings you're throwing around do not change this.
Also, lol @ "blind love for Freeza". ALL I'm doing is bringing up his feats--you're just ignoring them in favor of these 'air currents' that ASSJ Vegeta can theoretically generate.
Goku explicitly noted that Trunks was NOT going all-out against him with 'Freeza-slaying' strikes.
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Oct 12th, 2015 at 04:48 PM
I didn't mention it because it wasn't in-context with what I was saying but yes, it's a valid proof that too of how DB works.
It's true that Freeza has a very high natural durability: surely Goku and the others, nearly dead without Ki an cut in half, wouldn't even remotely be able to survive a planet explosion like Freeza did (see in fact an unconscious Chou Gohan perishing along with Earth's explosion during the Boo saga).
However, Freeza's natural durability means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things since AT, with that very example of Trunks' sword cutting Freeza but not Goku's finger or #18's arm, demonstrated to us that, with a level of battle power/Ki high enough, you can easily destroy a guy who can withstand planet explosions but not the arm of a cyborg who possesses a higher battle power than yours. It is just that easy in DB.
Supreme Kai and Super Vegeta just stand both roughly in the same ballpark, as far as battle power goes: stronger than Semi-perfect Cell (Supreme Kai's should be superior to Boo saga Piccolo) but weaker than the Full Power Super Saiyans; thus, if the Supreme Kai can end Freeza's life in one blow, a guy who made a 100% Semi-perfect Cell bend over with just two punches can as well, and with utmost, ludicrous ease at that.
Furthermore, many DBZ people, based on Supreme Kai's lol-worthy showings, statements and fears during the Boo arc, consider him to be way weaker than the level we are placing him here, and this fact strengthens even more the Super Vegeta's capability of dispatching of Freeza like a worthless fly.
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