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[Naruto] Significance of the Sun and Moon Tattoos?
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NewGuy01
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[Naruto] Significance of the Sun and Moon Tattoos?

So we know that after each of their respective "deaths", Naruto and Sasuke met Hagoromo and he imbued each of them with half of his power in the form of tattoos.

People have different opinions regarding the significance of these tattoos here, which I'd like to open some discussion about here.

How much of Hagoromo's chakra did they receive? How much of it did they lose after the Planetary Chibaku Tensei? (If at all?) Would Naruto and Sasuke have unlocked Six Paths Sage Mode/Rinnegan without it? (Naruto due to having chakra from all 9 Tailed Beasts, Sasuke from receiving power from Hashirama?) Did the Shadow and Light styles affect their other techniques? Discuss.

Old Post May 22nd, 2016 03:32 AM
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Demonic Phoenix
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You won't be receiving concrete info for any of your questions, just speculation for the most part.

1. Based on this scan, it was quite a lot, apparently enough to make Kaguya initially think that those two were reincarnations of her sons.

2. Lost the seals, so most of it.

3. Yes and no. Six Paths Senjutsu requires more than the chakra of the 9 bijuu, and if Hashirama's cells still contained Asura's chakra, then yes, Sasuke would have unlocked the Rinnegan, eventually.

4. Maybe. When Naruto used lava rasenshuriken, his seal was shown more prominently than one would expect. Sasuke's chidori was powerful enough to bisect Madara.
Also, interestingly enough, iirc Naruto never used the other bijuus' chakra in combat after losing the seal.


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Last edited by Demonic Phoenix on May 23rd, 2016 at 07:32 PM

Old Post May 23rd, 2016 07:28 PM
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NewGuy01
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
You won't be receiving concrete info for any of your questions, just speculation for the most part.


Right.

quote:
1. Based on this scan, it was quite a lot, apparently enough to make Kaguya initially think that those two were reincarnations of her sons.


Yeah, I was going to reference this scan if no one else brought it up.

quote:
3. Yes and no. Six Paths Senjutsu requires more than the chakra of the 9 biju,


Did it, though? Obito and Madara achieved Six Paths Senjutsu sheerly by becoming the host of the Ten Tails. There's a legitimate argument to be made that the only reason Naruto couldn't use it before was because he lacked Shukaku's and Gyuki's chakra. After all, he maintained SPSM during the fight with Sasuke; although you could argue that some of Hagoromo's chakra was still leftover.

quote:
and if Hashirama's cells still contained Asura's chakra, then yes, Sasuke would have unlocked the Rinnegan, eventually.


This is where it gets ambiguous, though. I don't think Hashirama gave Sasuke his cells or anything; but remember before Sasuke went to fight Madara, Hashirama said he'd lend him some sort of power that was never elaborated upon to aid him. This was obviously just a BS way for Hagoromo's chakra to appear within Sasuke, but would it have been enough for him to obtain Rinnegan anyway?

quote:
Also, interestingly enough, iirc Naruto never used the other bijuus' chakra in combat after losing the seal.


I think that's coincidental; he did, after all, maintain SPSM and the Truth Seekers during his fight with Sasuke. There's also the fact that he used up almost all of the Biju's chakra in the fight with Kaguya, and because it was gifted chakra it doesn't replenish itself.

Old Post May 23rd, 2016 07:36 PM
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Demonic Phoenix
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Yeah, I was going to reference this scan if no one else brought it up.


What were you going to say about that scan?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Did it, though? Obito and Madara achieved Six Paths Senjutsu sheerly by becoming the host of the Ten Tails. There's a legitimate argument to be made that the only reason Naruto couldn't use it before was because he lacked Shukaku's and Gyuki's chakra. After all, he maintained SPSM during the fight with Sasuke; although you could argue that some of Hagoromo's chakra was still leftover.


Yes, but the Ten-Tails is comprised of more than just the 9 bijuus' chakra, and despite having most of their chakras, Naruto was not able to use their power until Hagoromo. IIRC, the databook also states that Hagoromo was the one who gifted the state to Naruto.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NewGuy01
This is where it gets ambiguous, though. I don't think Hashirama gave Sasuke his cells or anything; but remember before Sasuke went to fight Madara, Hashirama said he'd lend him some sort of power that was never elaborated upon to aid him. This was obviously just a BS way for Hagoromo's chakra to appear within Sasuke, but would it have been enough for him to obtain Rinnegan anyway?


Oh, I assumed Kabuto had used Hashirama's cells to heal Sasuke.
Honestly, I do not think Hashirama's cells should still have Asura's chakra. It is alluded to that Asura's and Indra's chakras are discrete things within the reincarnates. Naruto mentions that he felt Asura's presence, and Hagoromo sees "Asura's chakra clinging to Naruto," so the chakras move on.
But then again, this happened, so maybe there's some mixing going on.
Anyway, if Hashirama's chakra still possesses Asura's chakra, then yeah, Sasuke should have awakened Rinnegan. IMO, it would be a regular Rinnegan though.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by NewGuy01
I think that's coincidental; he did, after all, maintain SPSM and the Truth Seekers during his fight with Sasuke. There's also the fact that he used up almost all of the Biju's chakra in the fight with Kaguya, and because it was gifted chakra it doesn't replenish itself.


I know, that is why I thought it was interesting.
He did, but for a short while, and his TSB also seemed to be weaker. They were destroyed by Susanoo arrows.

Honestly, you should probably discuss this stuff on other forums or sites. KMC's Naruto discussion is pretty much dead now.


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Old Post May 23rd, 2016 09:25 PM
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NewGuy01
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quote:
Yes, but the Ten-Tails is comprised of more than just the 9 bijuus' chakra,


In what way?

Old Post May 23rd, 2016 09:50 PM
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Demonic Phoenix
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Well, for starters, the Gedō Mazō.

Madara absorbs the Tree form and becomes more powerful/complete, so there might also have been something going on there (aside from the chakra boost).


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Old Post May 23rd, 2016 10:27 PM
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He had SPSM prior to absorbing the tree.


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Old Post May 23rd, 2016 11:09 PM
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Demonic Phoenix
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Hamura apparently could use Six Paths Senjutsu. The article for Chibaku Tensei implies as much. He did not have any bijuu chakra.


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Old Post May 24th, 2016 12:56 AM
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Man after they beat Obito shit got so complicated so fast. Silly manga.


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Old Post May 24th, 2016 12:59 AM
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Demonic Phoenix
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Lol, I know right. Or maybe more so muddled and confusing. His databook didn't help either.

Almost done with Bakuman btw.


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Old Post May 24th, 2016 01:24 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Hamura apparently could use Six Paths Senjutsu. The article for Chibaku Tensei implies as much. He did not have any bijuu chakra.


Uh... Yeah? Why would Hamura require Biju chakra, he's an Otsutsuki that naturally possesses that power. To begin with, the Biju were created by dividing his mother's power into fragments; the Six Paths Sage Mode is what's unlocked when the pieces are put back together. It's an Otsutsuki ability.

Old Post May 24th, 2016 01:30 AM
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Demonic Phoenix
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NewGuy01
unlocked when the pieces are put back together.


And when did this happen to Naruto?

Via the Chibaku Tensei implication, Sasuke would be a user of Six Paths Senjutsu as well. He used Chibaku Tensei and Six Paths - Chibaku Tensei long before the VotE fight. When did Sasuke receive Bijuu chakra?

So maybe not 'more than the Bijuus chakra', but their chakra is definitely not the only way to get it. And the DB states it was Hagoromo who gave it to Naruto anyway.


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Last edited by Demonic Phoenix on May 24th, 2016 at 02:24 AM

Old Post May 24th, 2016 02:09 AM
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NewGuy01
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
And when did this happen to Naruto?

Via the Chibaku Tensei implication, Sasuke would be a user of Six Paths Senjutsu as well.


When Naruto received Shukaku's and Gyuki's chakra, he possessed all of the fragments.

There was no such implication, at all. In fact, Madara specifically told us that Naruto possessed the Six Paths Senjutsu and Sasuke possessed the Rinnegan, exclusively. And then went on about how he was superior because he possessed both of those powers at once.

Old Post May 24th, 2016 02:33 AM
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Demonic Phoenix
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Except he never combined and sealed them like the other 2 did, he just had the fragments within him sitting pretty. He still had to meet Hagoromo to get Six Paths Senjutsu.

I know, and it is likely the databook f*cked up here, but the Six Paths - Chibaku Tensei page stated that only those who can use Six Paths Senjutsu can use it. So, according to the databook, Sasuke is somehow a user.


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Last edited by Demonic Phoenix on May 24th, 2016 at 02:53 AM

Old Post May 24th, 2016 02:50 AM
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It's probably referring to the Six Paths Chibaku Tensei variant that sealed Kaguya, not the standard technique that Rinnegan users have access to.

I'm not sure what you're getting at, also. So what if he never combined them? And where's your proof that he needed to meet Hagoromo to use it?


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Old Post May 24th, 2016 03:23 AM
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Demonic Phoenix
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NewGuy01
It's probably referring to the Six Paths Chibaku Tensei variant that sealed Kaguya, not the standard technique that Rinnegan users have access to.

Sasuke was technically a user of the SP version though.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by NewGuy01
I'm not sure what you're getting at, also. So what if he never combined them?

Obito and Madara were the jinchuurikii of the Ten-Tails, and they unlocked Six Paths Senjutsu via sealing the Ten-Tails. Naruto was the jinchuurikii of (most of) the 9 bijuu, but he could only access Kurama's chakra until he met Hagoromo, who gave him Six Paths Sage Mode.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by NewGuy01
And where's your proof that he needed to meet Hagoromo to use it?

The databook. It makes a distinction between how Naruto got Six Paths Senjutsu (via Six Paths Sage Mode/Hagoromo), and how Obito/Madara unlocked Six Paths Senjutsu (via Six Paths Ten-Tails Coffin Seal). It also states that Six Paths Sage Mode is "a power granted by the Sage of Six Paths."


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Old Post May 24th, 2016 05:11 AM
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quote:
Sasuke was technically a user of the SP version though


They're all SP.

quote:
Naruto was the jinchuurikii of (most of) the 9 bijuu, but he could only access Kurama's chakra until he met Hagoromo, who gave him Six Paths Sage Mode.


Again, why wouldn't Naruto be able to access their chakra otherwise?

If you're asking why he couldn't use SPSM before, it's because all of the Biju are required.

quote:
The databook. It makes a distinction between how Naruto got Six Paths Senjutsu (via Six Paths Sage Mode/Hagoromo), and how Obito/Madara unlocked Six Paths Senjutsu (via Six Paths Ten-Tails Coffin Seal). It also states that Six Paths Sage Mode is "a power granted by the Sage of Six Paths."


Do provide a passage for me.

Old Post May 24th, 2016 05:20 AM
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Demonic Phoenix
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Do provide a passage for me.


"Page 309

Ninjutsu, Kekkei Genkai - Six Paths Ten-Tails Coffin Seal
No rank, no range, supplementary
Users: Obito Uchiha, Madara Uchiha

The moment before he was discarded by Madara, Obito feigned the "Samsara of Heavenly Life" and formed the seals for the "Six Paths Ten-Tails Coffin Seal".

This technique let's the user possess the power of a jinchuriki by taking in the ten bodies of all tailed beasts. However, with one body already being hard to control, it's almost impossible to bring them all under one's control. This inevitably results in the collapse of the user's ego. However, very rarely, only one person that possessed innate suitability and acquired mental strength, is allowed to wield a world-shaking power, feared even as the "Nation-Building God"!

Condensed and drawn into the body of the technique's user, the gathered tailed beasts make the true power bloom.

Obtaining the power of the ten bodies of the tailed beasts is the same as owning the power of the Sage of Six Paths. It's also accompanied by black orbs that are similar to the "Tailed Beast Ball"."




" Page 310

Ninjutsu, Senjutsu - Sage of Six Paths Mode
No rank, no range, offensive, defensive, supplementary
Users: Naruto Uzumaki

The floating ability used by the Sage of Six Paths is also almost mastered unconsciously by this technique's user.

From the ancestor of shinobi, a divine state is gifted, touching the principles of all creation, commanding all things in nature

The qualities for obtaining this technique are strict studying and using a small gist in chakra kneading sensibility. An iron faith to face any hardship and the guts to never give up. Furthermore, the returning incarnation and fate's guidance - this power is granted by the Sage of Six Paths only to someone who holds those. Those who activate the technique come to understand the flow of all life, gain a deep insight at the world's origins and are able to apply it on interacting allies without changing the way of things. This technique isn't something shinobi choose to experience. It is a technique that chooses shinobi."

Translation was by Seelentau.


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Old Post May 24th, 2016 06:40 PM
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NewGuy01
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The first passage proves my point by itself, and the second is clearly about the light style.


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Old Post May 24th, 2016 07:06 PM
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Demonic Phoenix
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Because Naruto definitely used a kekkai genkai sealing jutsu on the Ten-Tails+9 bijuu, and 'Sage of Six Paths Mode' clearly means 'Yang Release'.

Right.

no expression

Edit: Seelentau should have posted his/her full translation somewhere. Lemme find it.


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Old Post May 24th, 2016 07:55 PM
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