Does Existence precedes Essence?

Here is one question I always have fun with people that believe in Existentialism. Do you think human beings have NO given identity until they have made a specific decision, and have chosen their goals (or work if you like), and have thereby defined themselves?

Or do you think that essence is the chief characteristic, quality, or neccesary function which makes a human being what it uniquely is? Therefore essence precedes existence?

I don't think that there is a right and wrong in this argument. But what are your thoughts on your own ideas of existence and essence. What makes a person unique? Is the essence or their plain existence? Comments?

UYou mean no-once can prove a right or wrong- logically speaking, one or the other must be so.

A lot of people would define a soul this way.

I don't think the essence of the person you are is finalised until you actually die, i think that everything that happens to you during your existance helps to build the essence of you.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
UYou mean no-once can prove a right or wrong- logically speaking, one or the other must be so.

A lot of people would define a soul this way.

That's exactly what crossed my mind as I read WD's post.

The essence of existance is the soul, in many people's opinion.

I was trying not to get into the topic of the soul (I don't know how I slip that out). I was aiming more at Existentialism which focuses on the existing individual person; instead of searching for the truth in distant universal concepts, existentialism is concerned with the authentic concerns of concrete existing individuals as they face choices and decisions in daily life. The soul is more complicated than that. Unless you don't believe that a person has a soul.

well..no...you must be thinking at a soul, when you say essence, even if not on purpose. i look at them as the same basic concepts. And i doubt a soul/essence is influenceable by decisions you make. you are born with it.
and how can one not believe ine xistance? 🙂...i exist, don't i?

I have to agree with Corran

Yeah, WD, whatever you were aiming for, essence will more often than not constitute as soul, to many people.

I see what you mean. For me Essence has always been the "ideal nature of something independent prior to existence". More like the identity or feature of someone. True, I can see that some people will connect the soul with essence. In religious terms essence is consider the spiritual entity of a person. Which it was I was trying to avoid.......religious argument.

Existentialism ... ever read The Stranger ... its a philosophy promoted by a guy named Camus in the 40's. Totally self centered existence where only the moment matters.

Existentialism is very true.
because people ARE emty untill they find some aims in their lives.

How do you mean Clovie? I consider myself an existentialist. I just don't understand what you mean by a connection between existentialism and having a goal in life.

Also, I believe existence precedes essence. That is, a person is a culmination of their past experiences and how they refer to them in making decisions in the present. I don't believe human beings are born with a predetermined soul or set personality.

Originally posted by WhiteEagle
How do you mean Clovie? I consider myself an existentialist. I just don't understand what you mean by a connection between existentialism and having a goal in life.

Originally posted by Clovie
i know that it may sound childish..
but imo the existnce is first, and untill someone has found their goal in life it is devoid of essence.

Not really. I think I understand what you mean. Although I think we have the meaning of 'essence' mixed up a bit. By essence I mean a persons character and qualities. It sounds like you mean the essence of someones life or existence. More like the purpose of it.

yeah. seems so 😕 means i didn't understand the topic corectly? shame.

Heh, even so. You made an interesting point. 😄

Originally posted by WindDancer
Here is one question I always have fun with people that believe in Existentialism. Do you think human beings have NO given identity until they have made a specific decision, and have chosen their goals (or work if you like), and have thereby defined themselves?

Or do you think that essence is the chief characteristic, quality, or neccesary function which makes a human being what it uniquely is? Therefore essence precedes existence?

I don't think that there is a right and wrong in this argument. But what are your thoughts on your own ideas of existence and essence. What makes a person unique? Is the essence or their plain existence? Comments?

What came first of Energy and Matter ?

Is not essence and existance just a flip side of the same coin.

Essence does not follow from existence and in many cases, essence is all there is. For example, the essence of a time machine is "a device by means of which one may travel into the future and the past" but it does not follow from this that because a there is an essence of a time machine that it is also an existent thing.

By that example do you mean that in the case of a time machine, the machine can have an essence without actually existing?

Originally posted by Paxelius
What came first of Energy and Matter ?

Is not essence and existance just a flip side of the same coin.

So you're saying that Energy and Matter balance each other? In a Evolutionary thinking that works (Big Bang and then life on Earth). In this case neither exist without the other. Like thinking and mind which can't be separated. The question in the thread is different. Did my essence came before my existence or did they both arrive at the same into my organic body during birth? Did I have essence before being born?