OR the same universe, which ended just as the big bang happenned to create a new universe similar to the previous one, so that time goes round like a loop
First of all… TIME began with the Big Bang. Space began, energy, everything.
So it makes no sense to speak of BEFORE Big Bang, as there was no time.
What “Mind of God?” Someone better prove God exists before we go down that path.
To understand why and how Big Bang occurred, we have to grasp a few peculiar physics-ideas – and some statistics.
If I wait long enough the improbable will happen.
If I wait forever, the IMPOSSIBLE will happen.
Take away the concept of TIME, and the impossible will happen immediately.
Then 1-1=0. Something-something=nothing. That means that out of NOTHING you can create, say, 1 kg of matter and 1 kg of antimatter.
Quantum-mechanics: It’s okay to break the laws of conservation of energy, as long as you do it in a short time-interval. It’s one of Heisenbergs uncertainty principles.
Now, at the “moment” of Big Bang (or “before” for those who NEEDS time) there was only quantum-foam, a bubbling kind of pre-geometry, pre-time/space whatever you want to call it. The chances that this would suddenly get “in sync” and create a Universe is pretty slim. But hey… there is no time yet, so the IMPOSSEBLE will happen along with a lot of POSSIBLE events.
Big Bang.
__________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."
"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."
i dont believe there was a big bang. I believe the birth of existence is beyond the understanding of humanities mental copacity. However, if there was a big bang, there would had to have been somthing before it. where would the gases and particles have come from.
__________________ "If you tell the truth, you never have to remember anything" -Twain
(sig by Scythe)
Physicists are not sure what happenned up to 1 plank time after the big bang, as the rules of physics break down there. What I like to think is that the previous universe was brought into being and then destroyed all in that short plank time, and at the end of it, matter and energy came into being.
Before means "earlier in time." Talking about what happened before the beginning of time makes no sense.
__________________ "Men curse the Communist Party, but eventually it may release them. If hell were endless, then God would be worse than our Secret Police."--Pastor Valentin
Steven Hawkins had a theory that the universe had a big bang, existed for a couple billion years, and had a big crush, big bang, and so on till and from infinity. Before the big bang, the same particles existing in a different universe
Think about it. The mind of God is unknowable. Before the big bang, the particles were in an infinity ball thing, and it is impossible to know what was crushed into that, as it would always be the same infinity ball thing. The term doesn't require God to exist
If there is no time, there is no forever. There's noever.
Take away time and... Sorry, but when did we start being able to play with time like that to conduct scientific research, and find that anything happens?
No, you should, according to my maths teacher, in equations, cancel out numbers. 1-1 cancels each over out, equalling 0. 0=0
16 billion years a short time? Regardless, particles cannot exist without atoms to exist in. Weird things only happen on the subatomic level, not the non-atomic/molecular/compound and so on level
You know this how? You sound certain, like we’d visited it. Pre Geography there was no geography. Pre steel there was no steel. Pre is by definition referring to before it’s existence.
DeVil_Dodo> It freaks out most people to contemplate this stuff It’s better not to… And just toss math and physics equations everywhere.
RR> “i dont believe there was a big bang.” It’s not a matter of belief. There is evidence which supports the Big Bang-theory (again, a scientific theory, not ”some” theoretical idea).
Reread my previous post: 0=1-1.
Eleveninches> There is no NEED for a ”previous” Universe for the Big Bang to have occured. There are a few scientists who support this idea, but I do not. We are hard pressed to comprehend ideas as ”no time” ”uncertainty principles” and ”quantum foam”, and mentally seem to bang against a wall… There need not be anything behind it, though.
The REAL problem with Big Bang (AND Black Hole centers etc) is that we still have not quantized gravity, that is understood it on the atomic level.
Ytaker> I frankly have not heard of Stephen Hawking proposing a sequence of Universes like you describe. Could you give me a link, please.
This Universe will not end in a Big Crunch, you see. That’s the new deal with dark energy, this mysterious anti-gravity (most likely vacuum-pressure induced) force that pushes the boundaries of the Universe apart with greater and greater speed – with no stop-sign in sight.
“The mind of God is unknowable.” What God? What mind? ”Before” Big Bang makes no sense, as time began at BB.
”Take away time and... Sorry, but when did we start being able to play with time like that to conduct scientific research, and find that anything happens?”
Statistics.
Your math-teacher forgets something (and yes, I can say that, I have a bachelors degree in math, myself).
0=0. Yes 0=+1-(+1)
So, NOTHING is equal to SOMETHING minus SOMTHING. The main-point there is, that NOTHING can be equal to something OTHER than NOTHING.
”16 billion years a short time?” 13,7 billion years. And short? In regards to what?
Particles CAN exist without atoms to exist in. They did right after Big Bang, and no foton, gluon, K-meson, pi-meson, W-meson and so on exist in an atom. Please, go ask your physics teacher…
Weird things happen at the atomic level. But what are you talking about? My ”qauntum foam”? If you want the precise definition of this, please ask me, I’ll be happy to elaborate, but I’m also obliged to make descriptions that most people can understand.
I know this how? I’m a physicist. I’ve studied the subject.
”You sound certain, like we’d visited it.” More certain that some culturally accepted delusion about the Mind of some deity. Besides, the BB is not speculation… Go ask your physics teacher about the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation for starters. The about what Albert Einsteins General Relativity Field Equations point to.
Yes, pre-time (before time), pre-space (before space), pre-geometry, before geometry. What is your point?
__________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."
"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."
__________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-Voltaire
"That includes ruining Halloween because someone swallowed a Bible."
"I just thought you were a guy."
"... Most guys do."
0=1-(+1) The only flaw is, as the computer says in the Diskworld chronicles "divide by cucumber". When a negative particle hits a positive particle, they just turn into energy, break down, and that stuff. They don't obey the common laws of Mathamatics ("possibly" though the laws of Physics). So that equation is useless. 0=x-x, just like x=x+0. Nothing is equal to what anybody with elementary mathamatics will call nothing.
God is infinite, and thus unknowable. The time (if it existed,i.e. the events leading up to the big bang) is unknowable because all forces, matter, and time was bound up in that big bang. It is Unknowable as "the mind of God" I accept that the big bang happened, just not that you know that when nothing happens that the unlikely happens. I don't accept that you know that... lets see, that if you remove time, that forever happens. If you remove time, no time or space (space equaling time) can move, or get the impossible to happen.
You'll have to explain to me how absolutely nothing, can spark up quantom folds. Then you'll have to explain to me something longer than 13.7 billion years to compare your words to, as the universe should have vanished if quantom stuff made it happen, if it disappears after a short time. Nothing that exists in the universe is older than that, how could it be short? Does it imply that when we reach "long" we'll pop out of existence? This is just seriously weird. Explain.
I try to only cite theories, and use as few technical words as possible, whilst Omega cites theorums, things that haven't been proven, and randomly inserts things that nobody cares about, or can understand. For instense, he says that the General Relativity Field Equations point to time pre time, something which no one can understand without studying physics for 10+ years. Personally, I'd try and explain, like when I said that 13.7 billions years wasn't a short time, what with it being all time.
KMC Community Forums
Nov 10th, 2004 01:35 AM
It’s better not to… And just toss math and physics equations everywhere.
