Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man—state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d'honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.
Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.
-Karl Marx
Karl Marx Stated Religion was the opium of the Broud Masses however the main point of communism is the economy(hopefully people Reading this know that much) and when communism first started blossoming the church was one of the most wealthy and greedy things around,this instilled a sense of hate of Religion early revolutionary's like Vladmir Illich Lenin,Stalin however made himself in some ways a god religious material burned and a picture of him in every house this tradition know as stalinism continued into nations like North Korea Where on every wall there is a picture of the great leader Kim Il Sung and the dear leader Kim Jong Il,North Korea has its own Ideology Juche(Self Reliance(I had the sig lol))Which in a way puts the Great Leader and Dear Leader as gods so label Juche as a Religion or political Religion or cult but North Korea(DPRK)Claims Juche to be the best type of Socalism-Communism but truly the only 100% Atheist Socalist-Communist State was Enver Hoxha's Albania(most badass leader in history lol)destroyed all Religion and remained that way until his death in 1985 of course he also built random pill boxes all over albania 😂,the sino-soviet split also had something to do with Religion,In conclusion communism itself can sometimes be a Religion,and generally revisionism and new ideas inside of communism led to Religion in communism
Originally posted by AlfheimNo, Karl Marx was atheist but that didn't lead him to think up Communism.
Yeah but my question to you guys is....since Communism says that atheism is a positive thing could you consider it to be an atheistic system, because it seems that atheism is or was a major principle in Communsim
This is a cool thread, it always neat to think about the link in things like this.
Religion can somewhat be reduced to rituals and beliefs about the world. Communism and communist states often incorporated many of these ideas in their methods of holding power over people.
I think in a very academic sense, communism is atheistic, in that it recognizes no God. In fact, I think the question is moot in many ways because communism as a theory says nothing about the existence of the divine, and there is no reason a communist couldn't also be a theist. For Marx, it was the subversive structure of religion that he hated. People became addicted and out of touch with reality, hence the reference to opium. It is likely that communism is against the established hierarchical structure of the church, though it is very ironic given that most if not all communist leaders have had to resort to many of the same tactics of persuasion, indoctrination and coercion as organized religions do in order to keep their people happy.
Originally posted by lord xyz
No, Karl Marx was atheist but that didn't lead him to think up Communism.
Exactly...Marx began his works after he saw how the poor were explouited by the capitalist controllers. In the 1800 the conditions of factories were so horrible that the poor decided they'd rather be homeless and emigrated to the streets of London, which offcourse did not sit well with The Capitalist controllers or the Bourgeoise, which convinced teh gov at the ime to pass 'The poorman laws' which forbade one from being unemployeed, and if one was caught living in the streets, homeless, they would be sent back to those factores, except this time, they would not get paid their low wages, in fact they would have to work for no pay.
...Also the reason Marx left christianity was because his father was Jewish, and forced to convert to christianity
Originally posted by TRH
No because atheism is rarly complete in communism and many times communism is the religon
Well Christanity is a Monotheistic religon because one of its main beliefs is that there is one God. At any rate Communism is an atheistic ideology because one if its main points is atheism.
Originally posted by lord xyz
No, Karl Marx was atheist but that didn't lead him to think up Communism.
Well no I think it did. Karl was an atheist because he believed it was correct he then creates an ideology which is atheistic in which people should be encouraged to abandon belief in God.
Mohammed believed in one God, he created an ideology that "encouraged" people to accept one god.
It seems to me atheism was one of Communisms major points. Accepting religon in Communism would go against Communism according to Karl Marx.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah but atheism seems to still have been one of the major points. Where did religon is the opuim of the masses come from?
voila
Originally posted by inamilist
For Marx, it was the subversive structure of religion that he hated. People became addicted and out of touch with reality, hence the reference to opium. It is likely that communism is against the established hierarchical structure of the church, though it is very ironic given that most if not all communist leaders have had to resort to many of the same tactics of persuasion, indoctrination and coercion as organized religions do in order to keep their people happy.
et plus de....
To communist leaders, religion is a compeating power. When a group tries to rule the minds of a population like they do in a communist dictatorship they MUST eliminate any other influence on their people.
The reason tyrants like Stalin opposed the church was specifically for this reason. It was a power struggle between two conflicting ideologies.
On a very idealistic ground, communists may be anti-establishment enough to not like the idea of organized religion as such, but that does not for any logical reason preclude belief in some god.
An interesting note is that, afaik, Mao used things like religion to further sell the communist ideology. Perhaps it is easier to indoctrinate someone to an economic system when those ideals are placed beside ideals that they already believe (traditional chinese folklore) or benevolent religious teachings like those of buddhism.
The line between communism and religion is pretty blurry, and totally arbitrary. Unless your only criteria for "religion" is belief in a specific god (that can't be a head of state).
Originally posted by inamilistTo communist leaders, religion is a compeating power. When a group tries to rule the minds of a population like they do in a communist dictatorship they MUST eliminate any other influence on their people.
The reason tyrants like Stalin opposed the church was specifically for this reason. It was a power struggle between two conflicting ideologies.
On a very idealistic ground, communists may be anti-establishment enough to not like the idea of organized religion as such, but that does not for any logical reason preclude belief in some god.
An interesting note is that, afaik, Mao used things like religion to further sell the communist ideology. Perhaps it is easier to indoctrinate someone to an economic system when those ideals are placed beside ideals that they already believe (traditional chinese folklore) or benevolent religious teachings like those of buddhism.
The line between communism and religion is pretty blurry, and totally arbitrary. Unless your only criteria for "religion" is belief in a specific god (that can't be a head of state).
Well I have my own little saying...the more you analyse something the more confusing it becomes. I think this is whats happening here.
Yeah I guess you could call Communism a religon, but regardless of wether its a religon or an ideology it could still be considered an atheistic ideology.
I guess you could call all relgions ideologies instead of religons. I think when people think of religon they usually think of gods or spirits or some concept of the afterlife, Communism doesnt have this...i think.... so it could be considered to be an ideology.
Re: Communism and atheism.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok im not sure what to say about this, but this is a thread to discuss Communsim and Athesim.Well I guess the question is can Communism considered to be an atheistic system?
P.S. I dont have an opinion on this at the moment I want to hear what others have to say.
( mind begins to ache)
no.
Two very different things very.
Communism can dictate religion or lack of it.