CAN YOU EXIST WITHOUT SENSATION{based in the 5 senses}?
this thought came to me. if your alive, psychologically functioniang/not sedated/thinking/AWAKE, and yet if sumhow, u lost copletely, the ability to touch, see, hear, smell and taste? would you be able to live{lets assume that your biological needs are being met completely in a hospital bed and you are out of harm's way}or be ALIVE? {this also includes ANY and all input concerning sensation to the brain by nerves} based on just your thoughts or metal processes?{lacking the physical component of emotions as you can not feal them}.
what kind of existance cud such a person have{if at all?}
please do remember that much of the SENSATION OF EXISTANT is actually physically based even though we think its our soul.
there experience would be dependent on how whether they were born with the condition or not.
__________________ Kalash Ibn Al Fewdawiiah Bin Noor
"Most books about science that are said to be written for the layman seek more to impress the reader . . . than to explain to him clearly and lucidly the elementary aims and methods"
Clearly someone wouldn't be able to fend for themselves in this situation, but the scenario is that the person is being kept alive in a hospital.
__________________ Kalash Ibn Al Fewdawiiah Bin Noor
"Most books about science that are said to be written for the layman seek more to impress the reader . . . than to explain to him clearly and lucidly the elementary aims and methods"
Okay. Well, since the person has no awareness of the outside world, and considering that person was born this way, he would probably know nothing. Not even English.
Then again, if that person became that way through an accident, they will have memories, but only themself is the only character in their life.
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"I don't know what's worth fighting for." -- Samus Aran
Last edited by lord xyz on Jan 1st 2000 at 00:00 AM
but really, im beginning to wonder, even the process of RECOLLECTION or thought which isnt based in relying onexpiriences coming in senory input form the outside world is inevitably connected with our sense of EXISTANCE, ann fealing based in the senses. its like fealing like you cant breathe yet still biologically breathing and being concious to have that fealing{like suffocating in your mind}. in this scenario you cant even tell whether your lung is filled with breath or not or ef u even have breathed{but u are being kept alive by a ventilater as in such a case u cant be relied on to instinctively do the action by sending and receving signals called BREATHING}. think of it as a brain and nothing else being lkept alive.
Re: CAN YOU EXIST WITHOUT SENSATION{based in the 5 senses}?
The five senses are specialized functions, but they are not necessary for awareness of the outside world. An amoeba has no formal sense of sight, touch, etc, yet it can respond quite well to what's going on around it on a simpler, biochemical level.
A person, say, developing in utero and then being born w/o use of his 5 senses wouldn't be able to navigate the world, and to us would be a mass of tissue kept alive artificially. But with the brain still being active, he would process what he is aware of: the biophysical activity of the living body, and on levels much subtler than we can detect (as we have the "noise" of the 5 senses).
It would be interesting to see how an intelligence would understand this sort of world. This person's consciousness would be very alien to ours: his mental map would be nonverbal and nonsocietal. But there may not necessarily be an absence of logic nor of the predisposition to see relationships between impressions, for building patterns and understanding into the field of awareness.
Then again, without the need for taking care of basic physical needs (it all being done for this person), the brain would have less impetus to be active and organize information.
Just my guesses.
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Last edited by Mindship on Oct 6th, 2007 at 02:53 AM
im also trying to understand how with any type of sensory input, a person would have CONTEXT to add CONTENT into. if that is thought can exist completely seperate from sensation to begin with.
Thought is its own sensation, just not a physical one. You are directly experiencing this subjective reality. It is the reality the so-called objective world is processed through. You may be able to eliminate input from the outside world, but the person will still be able to process information (if he's being kept alive and otherwise healthy); it will just be different information, even if what he processes is his own existence.
Would a self-aware egoic mentality inevitably emerge? I think the predisposition would be there, but there'd be no environmental incentive for it to engage. So offhand, I'd say no...unless there really is some transcendent form of self, which can manifest its presence despite the biophysical obstacles.
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Yes. Lack of awareness of one's surroundings doesn't stop you from living. The body's functions still operate properly and nothing prevents you from being given nutrients. Of course without the 5 external sense there would be no way to judge time and such so either every moment would stretch into an eternity (in which case you'd wish you were dead) or no time at all would seem to pass.
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I mean, sensory input takes affect as "experience" in the brain anyway. We don't hear, see, feel, etc. anything until our mind processes it. Sans outward senses, the brain would still produce signals, albeit very very stunted ones due to lack of outside input.
It wouldn't be much more than a vegetative state, but something would be going on cognitively, and it's likely some of the electrical signals would overlap with the processes used dring sensory interpretation. The person would be smelling, feeling, tasting things for brief (and very diluted) moments without even knowing what it is that they are experiencing....and it wouldn't even require outside input.
Much of this is speculation, but it seems like the most reasonable response to me.
Similar description, different conclusion. But to the overriding logic of it, though I can't fully agree.
i get where your coming from. but i think we are underestimating just hw much of a component SENSATION is, of thought. at first glance this sounds wierd because we think of thought as a discrete phenomenon different from sensation. but really the sense of SELF, existant, spacial or chronological, is dependant on the senses. so i doubt a person without any sensation can even sense TIME passing. also, an EXPIRIENCE at the mental level is what we call thought{although pure thought is literally different} and even in that purely mental expirience, various EMOTIONS and FEALING{even if not purely sensational} are involved to a great degree not to mention the fealing of EXISTANCE which is necessary. {for instant your eyes are literally taking in everything you see right now, in form of sensory input but you are really interpreting/seeing/making sense of only 2% or sumthing like that of that total information. your mind can not process anymore or retain it . therefore the rest is useless to you and you might as well not know about it. this is mainly because this excess information has no EMOTIONAL attachement to it or significance. also what you remember most is the physical stimulii with the most EMOTION attached to it}
part of what im saying is, that without sensation to give rise to emotions or FEALING, would the motivation to continue on with or give significance to pure thought processes even exist. or in other words, would you as a BEING, "EXIST" at all without physical sensation and not be reduced to sumthing like an inanimate computer with no "SOUL"{figuratvely} which can only process information{also kinda impossible as without sensory input youd have no CONTEXT or content to put into that context. and if it can happen at all, youd be literally thinking of completely ORIGINAL things of your own making. which paradoxically are not based on anything else. sorta like creating concepts like "existance" out of nuthing} at a very basic computative level?
summary, i have a fealing that "EXISTANCE" as we define it, has both a non sensory "intellectual" component to it, as well as a "sensory" component to it.
Absolutely. Though as a vague approximation of this thought experiment, I would recommend the novel/movie, Johnny Got His Gun.
Well this is the $64,000 Question: what are the components of consciousness? Is it entirely a construct of outer-world impressions, or is there some other fundamental aspect to it which may exist independent of sensation-constructs? How would the brain react to this deprivation of stimuli, a brain which was never exposed to something which it evolved to process?
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Last edited by Mindship on Oct 7th, 2007 at 01:57 PM
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Oct 5th, 2007 12:32 PM
to the overriding logic of it, though I can't fully agree.
