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30 Pieces of Silver
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WrathfulDwarf
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30 Pieces of Silver

Whether you're Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, Marxist, Atheist, Misc...whatever your noodles dictates.

Tell me.

Betrayal is justified?

You feel that betraying someone for a greater good is acceptable?

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Dec 29th, 2007 08:51 PM

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jaden101
cleopatra does the nasty

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Re: 30 Pieces of Silver

quote: (post)
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Whether you're Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, Marxist, Atheist, Misc...whatever your noodles dictates.

Tell me.

Betrayal is justified?

You feel that betraying someone for a greater good is acceptable?

i should say so yes...the attempted assassination of hitler for example

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Dec 29th, 2007 08:52 PM

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Robtard
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Re: 30 Pieces of Silver

quote: (post)
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Whether you're Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, Marxist, Atheist, Misc...whatever your noodles dictates.

Tell me.

Betrayal is justified?

You feel that betraying someone for a greater good is acceptable?

Title was a bit misleading, as Judas wasn't doing it for what he thought was a "greater good."

But yes, if the person you're betraying isn't worthy and especially if it for the greater cause. Jaden gave a perfect example above.

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Dec 29th, 2007 09:09 PM

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Symmetric Chaos
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Re: 30 Pieces of Silver

quote: (post)
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Whether you're Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, Marxist, Atheist, Misc...whatever your noodles dictates.

Tell me.

Betrayal is justified?

You feel that betraying someone for a greater good is acceptable?

It can be.

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Dec 29th, 2007 10:09 PM

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Sol Valentine
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It depends on what 'greater good' you're speaking of.

Assassinating/Double-Crossing a kind leader for all thier wealth and for the greater good=betraying for the wrong reason

Assassinating/Double-Crossing a sadistic leader for all thier wealth and for the greater good=betraying for the right reason.

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Dec 29th, 2007 10:44 PM

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Grand_Moff_Gav
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Hmmm, it's a difficult one...loyalty is a commodity but then again if the person is evil...it really depends but that doesn't contribute at all does it....

Ummm

I think that sometimes staying loyal to a person, through thick and thin is of the utmost importance. Even if its just to try and limit the damage they could do...should they be evil.

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Dec 29th, 2007 10:55 PM

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Mindship
Snap out of it.

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Sometimes betrayal is justified. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

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Dec 30th, 2007 03:36 AM

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chithappens
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relative to situation so there is no absolute answer.

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Dec 30th, 2007 04:23 AM

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chithappens
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by chithappens
relative to situation so there is no absolute answer.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mindship
Sometimes betrayal is justified. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

but greater good is still stuck to a particular paradigm which, i'm sure you can see, complicates matters

Dec 30th, 2007 04:24 AM

Mindship
Snap out of it.

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quote: (post)
Sometimes betrayal is justified. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by chithappens
but greater good is still stuck to a particular paradigm which, i'm sure you can see, complicates matters

Yup. That's why I wrote "Sometimes..."

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Dec 30th, 2007 04:42 PM

Fishy
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sol Valentine
It depends on what 'greater good' you're speaking of.

Assassinating/Double-Crossing a kind leader for all thier wealth and for the greater good=betraying for the wrong reason

Assassinating/Double-Crossing a sadistic leader for all thier wealth and for the greater good=betraying for the right reason.

Killing a good leader for the greater good would likely have the same effects as killing a bad leader for the greater good.

Now anyways, if the good caused by somebody his dead outweighs the damage caused by that person his or her dead then yes it is justified. Perhaps not something that you should like but nevertheless justified, at least if you can justify it for yourself. Personally I would say the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the many -1.

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Dec 30th, 2007 06:11 PM

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WrathfulDwarf
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I threw into the discussion the point of "the greater good" to make the topic more hard. Mwhahahaha. evil face

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Dec 31st, 2007 05:12 PM

Deja~vu
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This encompasses a wide range. What sort of betrayal? There is also the greater good of self as "to thyn own self be true."

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Dec 31st, 2007 05:26 PM

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Bicnarok
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Betrayal is a point of view. In the Hitler situation it may be a good idea, but if his second in command is a worse lunatic than he is then it would be a bad Betrayal, as he would take over and cause more calamity.

For example, Saddam has been executed in Iraq, but is it a safer peacefuller place without him?

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Jan 1st, 2008 04:32 PM

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Atlantis001
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If you�re into a situation where you must betray for a greater good, then you don't have much choice. You have to betray.

That is like forcing someone to betray. I believe in a situation like this you did not really betrayed the person, but external factors forced you to "betray". I think betraying is only possible if you consciously decide to betray without being forced to it.

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Jan 1st, 2008 04:53 PM

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Fishy
Senior Member

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Atlantis001
If you�re into a situation where you must betray for a greater good, then you don't have much choice. You have to betray.

That is like forcing someone to betray. I believe in a situation like this you did not really betrayed the person, but external factors forced you to "betray". I think betraying is only possible if you consciously decide to betray without being forced to it.

Not true, in extreme cases where you have to choose between two things that you love that will tear you apart, no decision is the right one and no decision is the wrong one. Or perhaps both are right and both are wrong. It's still betrayal though. To yourself, to your friends to your family or your country. That doesn't matter it's still treason. Even if the reasons for doing so are right.

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Jan 1st, 2008 05:11 PM

Atlantis001
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Fishy
Not true, in extreme cases where you have to choose between two things that you love that will tear you apart, no decision is the right one and no decision is the wrong one. Or perhaps both are right and both are wrong. It's still betrayal though. To yourself, to your friends to your family or your country. That doesn't matter it's still treason. Even if the reasons for doing so are right.

Yes, but if you are into a situation where this "greater good" is much greater than the reason why you are betraying, then maybe your betrayal can be justified somehow. Like if you were being forced to it... I mean, maybe its not just a matter of choice.

But I agree that sometimes there is no right and wrong, so this could be more a problem of chosing what side you wanna be.

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Jan 1st, 2008 05:40 PM

Fishy
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Atlantis001
Yes, but if you are into a situation where this "greater good" is much greater than the reason why you are betraying, then maybe your betrayal can be justified somehow. Like if you were being forced to it... I mean, maybe its not just a matter of choice.

But I agree that sometimes there is no right and wrong, so this could be more a problem of chosing what side you wanna be.

You are right it can be justified. But many things are.

Betraying your best friend by getting involved with his girlfriend because she loves you and you love her would be treason to him. If not it would be betraying yourself and her for him. Not doing anything would seem the noble cause but you would hurt yourself deeply and perhaps her as well.

Two many people happy is greater then one, is it worth it?

The greater good is vague and so is betrayal. But betrayal is always justified in the eyes of the one doing it.

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Jan 1st, 2008 05:45 PM

Atlantis001
The one without a name

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Fishy
You are right it can be justified. But many things are.

Betraying your best friend by getting involved with his girlfriend because she loves you and you love her would be treason to him. If not it would be betraying yourself and her for him. Not doing anything would seem the noble cause but you would hurt yourself deeply and perhaps her as well.

Two many people happy is greater then one, is it worth it?

The greater good is vague and so is betrayal. But betrayal is always justified in the eyes of the one doing it.

So maybe betrayal is not always wrong. Maybe betrayal must happen when we have a choice to make, and not necessarily there is a right choice..... I mean, it is just a decision.

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Jan 1st, 2008 08:01 PM

parenthesis
Lazy Rod Mix

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Whether you're Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, Marxist, Atheist, Misc...whatever your noodles dictates.

Tell me.

Betrayal is justified?

You feel that betraying someone for a greater good is acceptable?

Anything for the greater good.

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