Shang Chi is the premier martial artist of Marvel (just as Karate Kid, and I don't mean the silly Daniel san, is at the top of DC). Batman couldn't (or let me say shouldn't) beat Shang Chi in unarmed combat.
Now, if you are talking defeating Shang Chi anyways possible then Batman would take him down in minutes! But if you emphasize hand-to-hand combat only then Batman would have problems.
This is a fight for Batgirl (Cassandra Cain) and Lady Shiva Woosan. The two ladies could meet Shang Chi head to head in unarmed combat, and win (and just in case you are wondering Karate Kid would be too much for any human to handle).
Batman would have serious difficulty facing Shang Chi in unarmed combat. If he had to do it hand to hand he would have to call in Batgirl to save his behind.
Oh I like Japanese martial arts better. So Batman uses Japanese Martial arts and of corse shang we all know Kung fu is Chinese. But don't also Batman fight with Judo and Karate? Also doesn't he know Ninjetsu? I am not sure.
According to DC Batman has mastered martial systems from Japan, China, the Phillipines, and some exotic locales around the world. In his training stages he spent a lot of time in China, thus he knows Gung fu.
And you should note that gung fu is the most varied martial system (it is a system not an art) in the world. There are literally thousands of styles, from well known ones like Hung Gar and Choy li Fut to eclectic systems like Lian Shi and Yeuh Jar Ien Jao.
And by the way, gung fu is so far beyond any Japanese martial art. I know. I have a ni-dan ranking (2nd degree black belt) in Japanese Shotokan karate, and i've taken Judo. I've also done over 15 years (i am not as young as most on this forum. Im only in my mid 20s, but at times it seems many here are still in 9th grade) of several Chinese gung fu disciplines, and i can assure you that gung fu is beyond anything from Japan.
Most Japanese martial arts are 'Do', meaning arts for self-discipline and edification. Most Chinese systems have a significantly higher combat functionality.
And not to add the fact that in the US one sees 6th graders with black belts! That is ridiculous. I did most of my training before i came to the US, and it was freaking hard. We'd be sore for weeks and have bleeding knuckles. And at the end we would have to go and challenge other schools in the streets (and no, i am not talking about kumite or point sparring. Real fighting).
But in the US i see kids in middle school with black belt rankings, and they couldn't even stop a bully from taking their lunch. It is really pathetic what Japanese systems have become in the US. At least Chinese systems are rarer, and thus have kept most of their integrity in the US.
Agreed. Hand to hand Batman couldn't match Shang Chi. In an all out fight (all out meaning that Bruce can use all the resources in his arsenal against Shang Chi) Batman would win and win easy (in the same way Bruce cannot beat Shiva in a fight but would win in an all out battle), but hand to hand Batman is beat here.
This is a battle that should be between Shang Chi and Richard Dragon, Shang Chi and Lady Shiva Woosan, and/or Shang Chi and BatGirl (Cassandra Cain). In terms of hand to hand these would be really good fights.
Against Batman Shang would win in hand to hand combat. Batgirl or Shiva against Shang would be a different matter i'd call it a draw).
Shiva prepared for something like a year to do that mystical martail arts move that brought Cass back and said she couldn't do it again. Its pretty obvious that it took alot out of her considering she pawned Cass hard earlier in the comic with little effort while wearing a huge smirk on her face; it was a shallow victory at best for Batgirl IMO.
EDIT: It would be kind of like beating Batman after he ran 40 kilometers while carrying a bag of bricks.
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I personally think Shiva is better than Batgirl,but Batgirl is no slouch. She is better than Batman in unarmed combat, and her ability to read movements before they happen as well as sense things before they happen (like how she could know a sniper's bullet was heading towards her) makes her a formidable opponent.
Against an all out Shiva attack i doubt she could currently prevail, but she is still very young. She 'won' (actually they knocked each other out) Shiva in the 3rd fight because, as you said, Shiva had spent a lot of energy bringing Batgirl from the dead (after killing her in their second fight). Hence i would have to rank Shiva Woosan a smidget higher than Cassandra.
But she did gain Shiva's respect, which goes a long way when it comes to Shiva. The only other people she has 'chilled' with are Batman and Richard Dragon (Tim Drake got a few pointers, but that was due to respect for Batman). Batgirl is in exclusive territory.
But Batgirl is still one of the deadliest martial artists out there. Goodness, by age 8 Cain said he had made her better than HE was! Age 8.
And anyone who can beat Batman in hand to hand is deserving.
Now, let me try to get the dude who said Kangaroo could beat Batgirl back!
i did.....................who were you talking about? i don't read the batman comics so i don't know who the current batgirl is if it isn't gordon........ plus i was really just being facetious....... just agreeing that i din't think much of batgirl (gordon)
Batman stalemated her when he wasn't interested in a fight and she beat a weakened Shiva. Cass is good, she can kick the crap out of Nightwing (damn her!) but I dont think she is in the same park as the big boys yet.
All I know is the bad guy in Batman right now is cool... with his red mask and all.
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Makes sense then.
Barbara Gordon used to be Batgirl until she got parayzed waist down. Now she is wheelchair bound, and goes by the name Oracle. She essentially delves into computer records and the like and disperses the information to the Bat family (she has perfect memory and is a computer maestro, so she has found a new niche to help fight crime).
The current BatGirl is Cassandra Cain.
She is the adopted child of Cain, one of the top assassins in DC (though several are better), and the top assassin in the Batman sphere of influence. She was trained by him from infancy to be the perfect assassin, to the extent she wasn't even taught to speak. Everything went towards combative and killing skills. She 'spoke' with violence.
Soon it progressed towards honing her sensory abilities (to train her to dodge bullets Cain would shoot at her with live rounds. According to him she was the only one who survived - he had tried to raise another 'child' but none made it).
She took over the mantle of Batgirl from Barbara, and made some changes to the costume (it is, in my opinion, the coolest costume in the Bat family). It just looks menacing.
And she is as different from Barbara as night from day.
Cassandra can 'read' and 'sense' what someone is going to do before they do it, almost like some sort of combat telepathy, simply by looking at a person. She can also sense threats. It is not a spider sense per se, but she has known when a sniper a distance away shot at her, and dodged the bullet without even looking at the direction (thanks to the training she got as a kid from Cain).
And she dodged a gun being emptied at point blank range from her head - just by moving her neck from side to side.
Oh, and Batman cannot touch her in unarmed combat.
Batgirl 50, Bruce doesnt want to fight so it is mostly him blocking Cass' attacks but he lands a few hits. If Cass was a Batman villian and not his friend (or what ever) I would put money him him feeding it to her.\
EDIT: Onyx can hit Batgirl... and shes no Batman
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Odd, most consider Cain to be superior to Batman in martial arts h2h, falling just a tad -- and I do mean a "tad" -- below Lady Shiva, and Shiva, unless she has been retconned, has hitherto been considered to be the sterling standard of sub-metas (Karate Kid being nigh peerless in meta h2h, and only "nigh" because this is the post Crisis Karate Kid).
Batman is somewhat overrated in pure martial arts h2h imo, yet one must always allow for his resourcefulness.
In other words? He cheats.
Shang Chi defeats Batman. Hell, it is generally accepted that Daredevil is Batman's superior in martial arts h2h ability.
We've touched upon this in the past, but to reiterate...Shang Chi vs. Shiva would be a better match. Iron Fist vs. Shiva would be a better match. Batman (in pure martial arts h2h) is "generally" considered to be inferior to Black Panther, Captain America, Daredevil, Iron Fist, Elektra, and Bullseye.
As a very quick point of reference...Batman conceded that it was "conceivable that, after a very long fight, you would eventually defeat me" -- (JLA vs Avengers vs. Captain America). Somehow Black Panther is considered to be right there with Captain American in h2h (well, before Priest got a hold of him, I believe)...and in the relaunch, one of Panther's ancestors encountered Captain America during the 40's and lit him up.
Last edited by Never on Feb 16th, 2005 at 12:01 AM
If people keep bringing up that horrible cross over I can't forget it ever happened...
Cass being slightly below Shiva is a misconception IMO. She was beaten like a rank amateur by a "healthy" Shiva (she just barely beat a severely weaken Shiva... big deal). Bruce has better showings against Shiva that Batgirl's ones that actually mean anything, I think.
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Interesting read. Somehow, despite his being "the world's most accomplished and skilled martial artist," Prometheus was still able to effortlessly torch him? The description in the url almost puts him on par with Val, the Daxamite.
It is frustrating how wildly inconsistent writers are in portraying him.
KMC Community Forums
Shang Chi vs Batman
Feb 15th, 2005 09:00 AM
