Gender: Unspecified Location: Speedblitzing around the universe f
Scarlet Witch's power by itself isn't greater than Franklin Richards. What makes it so powerful is its interaction with Magneto's powers.
Anyway, I'd put it in this order:
Scarlet Witch + Magneto (multiversal scale)
Franklin Richards (universal scale)
Jim Jaspers (multi-planetary scale)
Scarlet Witch (planetary scale)
Proteus - Final Form (sub-planetary scale, mainly warping of existing reality, rather than creation of new reality)
Jaime Braddock (sub-planetary scale - editing of "dense" objects only)
Mikhail Rasputin (just thought I'd throw him in - molecular manipulation of reality, but limited to conception. If he can't conceive of an object, like the "human soul", he can't manipulate it)
Proteus - Original Form (area scale - limited to line of sight and mainly warping of existing reality)
Franklin Richards is more powerful than SW. This is SW on her won not with daddy Demi. Also Odins battles and even Molecule mans battleshave had effects which were felt across the multiverse but they dont have multiversal power, theyre not multiversal beings.
I wouldnt say SW and Magneto have multiversal power at all Demi. Maybe the affects can be felt across but she cant start actively warping the structure of reality of the entire multiverse.
Id say Franklin Richards
Jim Jaspers
SW (now house of m has started)
Proteus
Jamie Braddock.
Haven't read House of M enough to place SW, but Franklin was thought to be on par with the Celestials at one point. That alone speaks volumes, and he'd be the highest on that list (except perhaps for current SW, but like I said I don't know).
The Doctor is a reality-warper on at least a universal level (a former Doctor said, without pause or doubt, that the evil Doctor could de-create the universe if he wanted to and concentrated hard enough). And he's jumped dimensions plenty of times, so it might go beyond that as well. He'd give anyone on that list a run for their money. That;s my little addition to the reality-warping list.
Gender: Unspecified Location: Speedblitzing around the universe f
I ranked SW with and without Magneto, so I have that covered already. I agree that Odin and MM aren't multiversal beings, however, they've never altered the multiverse. SWM have - the latest Uncanny shows the entire multiverse being thrown out of whack - you can tell because there are different versions of different characters being thrown asunder. Roma said there could come dimensional convergence from what's happening, where all realities (universes) collide and destroy everything (***everything***). And this is just as a side effect. SWM aren't even focusing on changing the multiverse. Imagine if Thanos had their power and DID want to change the multiverse. You really think he couldn't?
Gender: Unspecified Location: Speedblitzing around the universe f
Yeah, hadn't thought beyond the Marvel Universe. I'm sure there are really powerful reality warpers in other comic series too. I'd love to see a Doctor gauntlet against the guys on this list.
Franklin Richards IS on par with a Celestial, and his reality warping on the same scale they have. However, one glaring limitation of Celestial power is the ability to move through dimensions or time. They are actually unable to do so, so their reality warping is limited to universal scale. Franklin's greatest feat was creating counter-earth. I have faith that he can get up to universal scale, but SWM casually -- accidentally, even -- changed the entire multiverse. The only things SWM have been unable to touch are the White Hot Room and the Omniversal Majestrix. But I don't believe even the latter would be safe from a focused effort, given how Jamie Braddock was able to invade the realm. That puts SWM's HoM above any Marvel feats we've ever previously seen.
Its still just speculation Demi thats the crux of the matter. MMs battles and Odins battles effected the multiverse as a side effect but they sure as hell couldnt start recreating its structure if they focused on it. Also range doesnt equal potency.
Gender: Unspecified Location: Speedblitzing around the universe f
How is it speculation? They specifically said it was affecting "everything". They specifically showed different universes, different realities colliding. It ain't speculation if they're showing it, silly.
And Odin and MM, while they've created "rumbles" in different dimensions, they've NEVER specifically ALTERED other universes. No exploding stars, no removed characters, nothing other than Earth 324 Dr. Strange saying, "Something is afoot!". There's a clear difference between the two, GS.
I'd argue that range is a HUGE part of potency. They've changed the entire multiverse and everybody in it. That's pretty damn potent. It's more potent than any previous feat we've seen. It's a more potent on-panel feat than we've seen even your precious Phoenix attain.
Not so Demi im afraid. On panel my dear Phoenix held the multiverse together by negating the effects of the M'kraan crystal which was causing i quote "total disruption of the nuclear and gravimetric lines of force that bind all matter together" In essence all reality across the multiverse was being wiped out and on panel my "precious phoenix" held all of that matter together and contained this force. So Demi lets not get ahead of ourselves, the magnus duo are good but not that good.
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Last edited by GalacticStorm on Jul 20th, 2005 at 06:03 PM
Gender: Unspecified Location: Speedblitzing around the universe f
First, congratulations on finally using the quick quote feature, lol.
Secondly, Phoenix didn't "bind the multiverse" under her own power. She repaired the M'Kraan crystal, which itself binds the multiverse. A dam containing a raging river is leaking. I fixed that dam. Does that mean that I can contain a raging river? No, and it doesn't suggest I have the power to, either. All it means is that I'm handy with some concrete spackle and an industrial sander. Ditto with Phoenix fixing the M'Kraan Crystal. Additionally, she was unable to do it on her own without being absorbed into it. She didn't have the power to resist the M'Kraan crystal herself, so she relied on humanity to do it by anchoring herself to them.
HoM, on the other hand, are inadvertently converging all realities themselves. They're circumventing the M'Kraan Crystal entirely. They're not just fiddling with the dam like Phoenix did...they ARE the dam.
That puts their feat above anything Phoenix has done on panel.
If they are causing realities to converge then they are not the so called dam they are the leak in the dam. The dam is the M'kraan crystal. Legion created a similar effect by changing time and making it so that jean didnt become phoenix.
On panel phoenix in an excalibur flashback joined all the different universe of the multiverse together by projecting a doorway through the entire multiverse. On panel Phoenix manipulated the molecules of an entire universe, amputated an undesired future and then healed the universe with her energies. Causing realitys in the multiverse to collide is very impressive but its as a result of their unrefined tamperings. It is not a conscious effort. Big difference.
Gender: Unspecified Location: Speedblitzing around the universe f
They're not just the leak...they're the sledgehammer for the dam. And they're not just destroying it, they're remaking it, so they're dam builders, too. Except they're building it with their own power.
She did that to view different universes. That's a Watcher-level feat at best. The Omniversal Majestrix does the same thing all the time. She didn't make any alterations to it, so it's not as impressive.
That's nice, but it's only universal in scope. HoM altered the past, the present and the future of the multiverse. It's greater in scope and power than just altering the future of a single universe.
I'd argue that the fact that one can casually unmake the multiverse from unrefined tamperings is actually MORE impressive than making a conscious effort to do it. Here they are, not even trying and yet the entire multiverse is coming apart at the seams. Imagine if they TRIED to remake the multiverse. They're not, because it's not within the scope of what they're trying to do. But as demonstrated, it's certainly within their power.
Fair enough. Let's make a slight modification to that analogy. Your fat-handed clumsy cousin is trying to do the Electric Slide, trips, falls through your brick wall, and collapses your entire house in the process. Clumsy? Yes. Accidental? Absolutely. EXTREMELY powerful display? Without question. Evidence that your cousin possesses the power to break through your brick wall at any time if he were committed to doing so? You'd be silly to argue otherwise.
I have a suspicion, but that person would only be the architect, not the power source. The feat would remain. To keep with the analogy, it would be as if Mastermind were revealed to have mind-controlled your cousin into doing the Electric Slide through your brick wall. Mastermind's instructions, but still your cousin's power. It doesn't take away from his oafish might.
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Phoenix isn't on the list guys Like Supes she is getting in to many threads so lets look at this.
Jim Jaspers is awesome, lets go back in time to my youth and the days of Marvel Superheroes (UK) with "Dez Skinn" and Captain Britain magazine (it wasn't called a comic at the time in the UK).
Entering the T.A.R.D.I.S we set the "flux capacitor" to 1981 (i think) and find Jimmy J. Altering reality bigtime as I remember and remember ("Timelords", like myself are very old compared to you humans) that it took the destruction of his whole dimension to kill him in dimension 238. The other Jimmy J's do not seem as powerful if its the first and greatest Jimmy J he takes it totally. His powers seems to be able to operate on the whole of a universe not just a small area of spacetime
Keep the faith
Know Jimmy J has a badass moustache like Zebedee
Stay Whirly
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Last edited by Sir Whirlysplat on Jul 20th, 2005 at 08:04 PM
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May 4th, 2005 10:48 PM
Like Supes she is getting in to many threads so lets look at this.
"Timelords", like myself are very old compared to you humans) that it took the destruction of his whole dimension to kill him in dimension 238. The other Jimmy J's do not seem as powerful if its the first and greatest Jimmy J he takes it totally. His powers seems to be able to operate on the whole of a universe not just a small area of spacetime
