Honestly... a bruce lee in his prime vs jet li? People who used to film Bruce Lee supposedly had to ask him to slow down his moves to so they could capture them on film.
i mean we won't know for sure... but i gotta so i think bruce has this.
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Both are good exponents. Both have strong martial backgrounds (although it should be noted that Bruce had a background in Wing Chun, a rather practical martial art, while Jet Li had a background in Wushu, a more performance oriented art that is a showy distillation of Gung Fu).
The reason why I think Bruce would win is that while he made a very good transition into movies, the practical applications of his original style (Wing Chun) are quite robust, and the extension of that (plus other styles, including Western Boxing, Filipino martial applications, grappling before it was 'cool' to cross train in ground work, even the cadence and footwork of fencing) into the style that he created (Jeet Kune Do) formed a very practical martial art.
Furthermore, Bruce put a lot of thought into the concept and dynamics of fighting. He did not necessarily just take what Sifus (masters/teachers) from the past had said (he had a joke where he would say that maybe the reason a particular Gung Fu style has a weird stance is maybe because its creator was a cripple, thus it is silly for modern students to use the same stance), but what he would do is take the very best from many styles and create something that was personalized for him.
Jeet Kune Do is (or should be) personalized for each exponent, creating a very open and dynamic style (calling it a style is actually a misnomer, because it is more like a concept that can be applied depending on the particular person).
Jet Li's wushu (a loose collection of styles that are more performance oriented, but very visually appealing) is not bad. It is just that it is better at winning competitions than being applicable in the street. A lot of the moves (which are very flashy and very hot) would not work outside a performance dojo/dojang/exhibition hall, or outside the carefully constructed sets of a movie shoot.
Now, that is not to say Jet Li cannot fight. He can probably beat up half the members of this board at the same time ......it is just that the effort to get that good is more than most people can put together (note that Jet Li, like another movie persona .....Jackie Chang , were actually given to 'theater schools' as kids where they were taught Wushu and similar).
A style like JKD, or say Krav Maga or even Muay Thai, can have you practically capable of SOME measure of self-defence years faster than Wushu would (sure, in Wushu you might be able to do some cool moves in a month or two, but a Krav Maga or JKD practioner who only took serious lessons for 6 months will beat you up to your 6th year in Wushu).
Anyways, I'd say that (in MY OPINION) Bruce would win in a real fight. After all, the guy was in several real fights against some good Gung Fu fighters (the first i know of was when he had to fight for the right to teach non-Chinese, and the second was when he was filming in Hong Kong and some guy decided that he wanted to see what Bruce could 'teach').
It is mostly speculation, but based on the amount of time that Bruce spent on the practical applications of fighting (his books are filled with that), and the fact that Wushu is mostly flash, I'd say Bruce wins.
If Jeet Kune Do is an ugly 9mm Glock pistol that has been fired a lot in practice and is known to work, Wushu is an ornately designed, gold-inlaid, highly polished blunderbuss gun from the 17th century that has a single-shot flintlock action.
The blunderbuss will definitely look better on display, but if MS-13 gang members break into your house you will definitely be grabbing for the old ugly Glock and not even think of the gorgeous ornate flintlock gun.
Bruce Lee packs a Glock ....Jet Li packs a blunderbuss.
the Chinese won't like it that you equated the way of Wushu to a early twenty first century flint-lock weapon, lol.
good points were brought up in that post and I agree with most of it, I just need to add the fact that Lee was fanatical when it came to self improvement in terms of physical training. this greatly reduces the "on a good day" scenario, cause some if not all fights are affected by the mind of the combatants and their readiness to compete.
Lee seemed to always be prepared and fit enough to fight almost any opponent at full capabilities at any time a fight would or could occur.
I couldn't agree with you more, Bruce lee was also in much better condition physically than Jet Li. There are of course two forms of Wushu, but you nailed it nearly dead on, Jet Li's form is a little more deadly that the gymnastic type forms that you can see performed on stage however, but they are both quite similar.
I am sure that there are still some Chinese, particularly in the rural areas, who still send their children to 'theatre schools' and 'Opera schools' (the names are interesting, although they are based on the traditional role of teaching traditional theatre, although by the 1950s that had also included Wushu, acrobatics, and such stuff, and currently include such things as stunt work). Not as many as was the case in the late 60s/70s (since the Gung Fu craze had started to ease up, although there is still some appeal because of the stunt work aspect brought about by Alumni like Jackie Chan), but I would say some people still do.
The reason people did so would probably be best explained by a native Chinese, and since I am not one it is hard for me to do so. But i do know that it is on a contract level, and that the schools take care of everything (food, bedding, you name it). The graduate would then pay back the school once he/she got jobs in theater/stunt work/movies/etc.
Many of the Asian gung Fu stars (ranging from Samo Hung, to Jackie Chang, to Jet Li) all started in theatre schools. Some, like Jet Li, went on to become champions of Sport Wushu (I believe Jet Li was so good that before he had finished his teen years he had already retired from sport competition after winning year in year out). Almost all stunt people in Hong Kong and greater China stem from those schools.
Bruce Lee, on the other hand, had a Catholic school upbringing. No child-slavery at 'theater schools' for him.
On screen Jet Li has 'greater feats' than Bruce Lee, although part of that is that Bruce was VERY demanding that his moves be as realistic as possible ....his greatest movie was to be the Game of Death, although he died before it was complete .....and they got some Chinese actor look-a-like to do some roles that were quite corny, but the big part was where he goes up levels of a building and in each level is a different practioner. He was to use that to show how the openess of JKD can defeat the static styles of traditional arts. Sadly GoD was not completed as he would have wanted, since he died, and thus his greatest movie became Enter the Dragon.
Since you mentioned Fist of Legend, let me use that.
FoL was actually a REMAKE of Bruce Lee's Fist of Fury, and the two movies can show the difference between the two characters. They are both about the same story, but the Bruce Lee version (even though it has very good fight scenes) is more realistic, while the Jet Li version has some very fantastic moves where he takes apart people like he is Batman on crack.
Both are very good moves, but one tries to stay as close to reality as celluloid would allow, while the other is an extrapolation of reality.
E.g. One is a Ferrari (while fantastic, is an actual real car), while the other is the Batmobile (it is not just fantastic, it is actual fantasy)
Fantastic vs fantasy, that is the difference.
Although I 100% agree on Fist of Legend ...great movie. You should also watch Fist of Fury by Bruce Lee. Same exact movie, and it is interesting to compare and contrast between the two.
I'm in no way knocking fist of fury, quite the contrary, i just prefer Li's version solely for the expert fight scene choreography.
the tale of Japanese/Chinese bad blood is done better in fist of fury in my opinion due to the very real and unprecedented hatred of Bruce Lee who then became a national hero, even depicting himself as a believable champion for the Chinese way of life.
the fight scene between generel Fugita and Li's character in fist of legand was approximately 10 solid minutes of "gorgousness and gorgossity". a must watch.
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Last edited by psycho gundam on Apr 1st, 2008 at 08:50 AM
LOL ....that is very true. Bruce's hatred in FoF always seemed too real. As you said, dude probably was not acting much (and on a broader geo-political front, as China becomes ever stronger, some day will come whereby some of the atrocities done in China by the japanese imperial army during WW2 will come home to roost. Some of the things the Japanese did to the Chinese during WW2 were ...well ....twisted).
I also agree in terms of choreography ....in FoL it is better and more visually appealing.
at least we all had fun in this thread, it surely will get closed/moved when the mods see it. the others like it did, and they only had one non-comic fighter.
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