Possibly, but both of them had different feats and John was stated numerous times to be the most powerful of the seven. Take 4 and 5 as a wash if you must.
I know which episode you're referencing, however throughout the show's history, John has had some pretty embarrassing feats. Being taken out easily by a Thanagarian is just one example.
Plus, there's direct comparison's of power in which Superman fights Amazo in his first appearance on the show. At the time, he had the powers of Flash, John, Wonder Woman, and Hawkgirl. Before Superman and he fought, Amazo was able to wipe out the rest of them rather quickly. Then, once he encountered Superman, he copied his abilities along with the rest of theirs that he already had. Superman was able to get the better of him in the ensuing fight.
Also, in the "Metamorphosis" episodes, John was getting rocked by Metamorpho. Superman jumped in and started beating Metamorphosis until he had to resort to turning his body into kryptonite.
John just straight up doesn't have the feats to back the claim that he's the most powerful member of the team.
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Yeah, John was taken out by several low-level attacks, but discounting certain situations (was the Thanagarian incident when he was distracted by hawkgirl? I can't remember. Also, Metamorpho was a friend of John's) there haven't really been that many. But I generally concur.
I just felt that Superman was written differently, as a brick who excelled in physical combat (I can't remember him losing a single physical bout) but whose vulnerability to K-nite was pronounced. As for direct comparisons, there was also that episode (the one on teamwork, with Clayface iirc) in which one of John's constructs was pounding on Superman for a good while as John himself was idling.
To be honest, I placed John before Superman on the list when I made it, but switched at the last minute after recalling certain portions of the show, and because I felt that John's powerset was better suited, much like Firelord may be < DOS doomsday, but I would place him higher on a gauntlet against surfer.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Animated Surfer runs the gauntlet
Nah. In Star Crossed III, Shaira's Thanagarian fiancee (can't remember his name... and it wasn't Katar Hol) whooped his ass in a fair fight.
Rex was indeed a friend of John's, but it was pretty apparent that he wasn't able to do anything against him, and was really getting outclassed.
Outside of the 3 examples I provided, I'm pretty sure I could think of more, but honestly, it's been awhile since I watched the cartoons.
I understand what you're saying, but John came across as pretty weak throughout the series in spite of his versatility. Even with his limited means, Superman still owned guys like Captain Marvel, Captain Atom (which was even more impressive considering he was pumping out red sun radiation for the duration of that fight), Darkseid, Mongul, etc. Superman was just flat out more powerful.
Vulnerability to kryptonite wouldn't really mean much in this fight unless somebody can prove to me that animated Surfer has the ability to create kryptonite. Comic Surfer doesn't equate to animated Surfer.
Also, in the instance with the construct that you're talking about; that was more of a training drill than anything. Other than that, Superman said he was "the invulnerable one" of their team and basically implied that he could take those hits all day long. In the end, Superman shattered it.
Fair enough, but I still think that JL Superman is more powerful than JL John by a decent margin.
__________________ Poppa's comin home to sling some dick.
Oh yeah. That was towards the end of that Starcrossed saga. A fair point.
To be honest, none of the JL were able to do anything against Metamorpho, including Superman. That was simply how Metamorpho was written.
I'm sure that there are more than 3 examples of John getting hammered by lower characters, but he does have several good feats too, against Despero and against those hunter robots. I can't remember well either -- the last time I watched some of the eps was after that long discussion I had with you about Fate and Hawkgirl.
I agree, and I remember every single one of those fights. My original point pertaining to how this incarnation of Superman was written was that he was made out to be the brick of the show, so much so that any h2h battle, save perhaps one against WW, was won by him. The downside to that was of course, that he was made out to be particularly vulnerable to his weaknesses. That isn't saying that surfer can synthesise k-nite, that's just saying how I felt Superman was written, with the latter balancing the former.
Right. I'm not going to get into a full-fledged discussion here though, not because I don't believe in the slightest bit that John can be logically ranked above Superman, but because doing so would mean rewatching many episodes. I'm just gonna leave it as it is then.
Absolutely true, however, just like the Amazo example, Superman did much better than any of them.
I also sincerely doubt John could've handed out an owning like Superman did to the Brainiac infused Darkseid in the final episode of JLU.
Lulz, oh yeah.
I have a legitimate argument for the Wonder Woman/Superman fight. During the first season of JL, the writers and producers admitted in one of the commentaries that they made Superman a wimp. As the show progressed though, they made him more powerful. An example of that is in the JLU episode "For the Man Who Has Everything" when Mongul came and attacked Superman's fortress. Diana was getting her ass kicked before Superman stepped in. Also, in "The Terror Beyond," Aquaman went punch for punch with Diana and ended up knocking her out via dragging her underwater. Then, when he tried stepping it up against Superman, he ended up getting knocked out in one punch.
Okay, but with that in mind, John shouldn't be higher on the list. He definitely had more versatility than Superman, but wasn't as powerful.
To be honest, this is the way I'd imagine a fight between animated Surfer and Superman would go, although he wouldn't know about Superman's red sun weakness.
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Jul 4th, 2008 04:20 AM
