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Twin Snakes Solid Snake and Gray Fox vs Daredevil and Elektra
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Twin Snakes Solid Snake and Gray Fox vs Daredevil and Elektra

no powers, no weapons, h2h only. This is the Twin Snakes version of Snake and Fox

Old Post Aug 4th, 2011 12:48 AM
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KingD19
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Team 1. Actually, Fox stomps. When a guy is fast enough to evade automatic laser/machinegun fire by rolling, or can kick a man hard enough to leave an impressive dent in a fortified metal wall, or kick a several ton slab of cement with impressive speed....or hell, hold up the foot of something in the 500+ ton range(Rex). Murdock and Elektra have no way of hurting him if they're even fast enough to hit him.

Old Post Aug 4th, 2011 01:31 AM
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correct, snake cannot compete with matt and elektra, they cannot compete with fox.

Old Post Aug 4th, 2011 01:36 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by KingD19
Team 1. Actually, Fox stomps. When a guy is fast enough to evade automatic laser/machinegun fire by rolling, or can kick a man hard enough to leave an impressive dent in a fortified metal wall, or kick a several ton slab of cement with impressive speed....or hell, hold up the foot of something in the 500+ ton range(Rex). Murdock and Elektra have no way of hurting him if they're even fast enough to hit him.
Um I'm not sure what game you were playing but Snake actually kicked the crap out of Fox in Twin Snakes.
So I'm not sure where you get the idea that they can't hurt him.

Gray Fox holding up Rex's leg is also a severe case of PIS. Just like Raiden holding back Outer Haven, both instances are bad writing.

Old Post Aug 4th, 2011 01:40 AM
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KingD19
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Hellboy288
Um I'm not sure what game you were playing but Snake actually kicked the crap out of Fox in Twin Snakes.
So I'm not sure where you get the idea that they can't hurt him.

Gray Fox holding up Rex's leg is also a severe case of PIS. Just like Raiden holding back Outer Haven, both instances are bad writing.


He beat him in the fight and Fox let him beat him because Snake was the only one capable of making him feel alive. On top of that the suit was severely malfunctioning at the time.

And call it what you want, but the cybersuits in that series have always been shown to be pretty powerful. Crying Wolf in MGS4 for example not only stopped a 40 something ton bulldozer that was going full speed, she pushed it back. And the fact it happened, so get over it and face the fact that T2 goes down hard. A guy who can keep a giant robot from stepping on him isn't getting hurt by punches and kicks from two streel level MA's.

Old Post Aug 4th, 2011 01:50 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by KingD19
He beat him in the fight and Fox let him beat him because Snake was the only one capable of making him feel alive. On top of that the suit was severely malfunctioning at the time.

And call it what you want, but the cybersuits in that series have always been shown to be pretty powerful. Crying Wolf in MGS4 for example not only stopped a 40 something ton bulldozer that was going full speed, she pushed it back. And the fact it happened, so get over it and face the fact that T2 goes down hard. A guy who can keep a giant robot from stepping on him isn't getting hurt by punches and kicks from two streel level MA's.


Gonna have to agree.


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Old Post Aug 4th, 2011 01:56 AM
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Originally posted by KingD19
He beat him in the fight and Fox let him beat him because Snake was the only one capable of making him feel alive. On top of that the suit was severely malfunctioning at the time.

And call it what you want, but the cybersuits in that series have always been shown to be pretty powerful. Crying Wolf in MGS4 for example not only stopped a 40 something ton bulldozer that was going full speed, she pushed it back. And the fact it happened, so get over it and face the fact that T2 goes down hard. A guy who can keep a giant robot from stepping on him isn't getting hurt by punches and kicks from two streel level MA's.
Where does it state that? He attacked Snake and Snake kicked his ass, nothing about him letting Snake beat him. Provide proof of this please. Also provide proof that his suit was malfunctioning on it's own. It's more likely that Fox went insane and left. Also I find it hard to believe that it malfunctioned when it he came back at the end of the game and damaged Rex.

I call it PIS because it is PIS. Learn what PIS is before you simply state "it happened". Snake kicking Gray Fox's ass is what happened. Stop making excuses. Raiden held back a giant ship but had a very hard time fighting Vamp. MGS Cyborgs are plagued with PIS. Consistently they get manhandled my humans. That's more consistent and that's more valid.

Team 2 wins.

Old Post Aug 4th, 2011 02:01 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Hellboy288
Where does it state that? He attacked Snake and Snake kicked his ass, nothing about him letting Snake beat him. Provide proof of this please. Also provide proof that his suit was malfunctioning on it's own. It's more likely that Fox went insane and left. Also I find it hard to believe that it malfunctioned when it he came back at the end of the game and damaged Rex.

I call it PIS because it is PIS. Learn what PIS is before you simply state "it happened". Snake kicking Gray Fox's ass is what happened. Stop making excuses. Raiden held back a giant ship but had a very hard time fighting Vamp. MGS Cyborgs are plagued with PIS. Consistently they get manhandled my humans. That's more consistent and that's more valid.

Team 2 wins.


Well considering as Jaeger Snake had a hard time keeping up with him, and the cyber suit boosted his already near superhuman abilities much higher, it makes sense. And if you look at him during the fight in the office, he would stop and cry out in pain because the suit was malfunctioning, and at the end of the fight, it was enough to make him retreat. And at the end of the game it was obvious he was in full mental control and his suit was working fine. And you really trying to tell me to figure out what PIS is, you with your 4 posts and brand new membership. Compared to me whose been here since 09 and has nearly 9000 posts. I know what PIS is, and if you really wanna call PIS, call PIS on Snake seeming to hurt Fox during that fight. Not the cyber suits which have all(every single cyber ninja) insane blunt force durability and strength.

Team 2 loses...I know the butt hurt is unbearable, but the pain eases with time. Happy Dance

Old Post Aug 4th, 2011 02:16 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by KingD19
Well considering as Jaeger Snake had a hard time keeping up with him, and the cyber suit boosted his already near superhuman abilities much higher, it makes sense. And if you look at him during the fight in the office, he would stop and cry out in pain because the suit was malfunctioning, and at the end of the fight, it was enough to make him retreat. And at the end of the game it was obvious he was in full mental control and his suit was working fine. And you really trying to tell me to figure out what PIS is, you with your 4 posts and brand new membership. Compared to me whose been here since 09 and has nearly 9000 posts. I know what PIS is, and if you really wanna call PIS, call PIS on Snake seeming to hurt Fox during that fight. Not the cyber suits which have all(every single cyber ninja) insane blunt force durability and strength.

Team 2 loses...I know the butt hurt is unbearable, but the pain eases with time. Happy Dance
Or it could just be that Frank is an incredibly shitty fighter. Big Boss was able to tool him in Portable Ops when he was Null.

Also where does it state that Snake had a hard time keeping up with him? All that was ever stated was that they fought in the middle of a mine field and that Snake won. Nothing about how hard the fight was.

All the exoskeleton did was enhance his strength and speed, not his fighting skill.

It looked like his suit was malfunctioning after Snake started beating on him. Not prior to this. So the idea that his exoskeleton started to malfunction out of the blue is pretty vague.

So you agree that at the end of game his suit was working fine? Unless someone on Shadow Moses repaired it for him, how the hell would that be possible if his suit really was malfunctioning? I think you need to get your story straight.

You can have 1,000,000 post for all I care, it doesn't mean that you know what PIS is. Jaeger holding up Rex's leg was PIS just like Raiden holding back outer haven, their consistent showings don't match up to it. It's amazing how you think that Cyber suits have amazing durability when Vamp had no problem stabbing Raiden with knives.

You can call me butt hurt if you like but I don't like any of the characters in this thread particularly so that isn't helping your point.

Last edited by Hellboy288 on Aug 4th, 2011 at 02:33 AM

Old Post Aug 4th, 2011 02:29 AM
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Hellboy, its different from comicbooks where a character can have 10000+ appearances and usually is shown to be class 2 but lifted a tank on one occason because of some fanboy writer who took over for one issue. Grey Fox has basically 2 showings (two versions of the same game) and in both of them the writers made him strong enough to support Rex's leg. For it to be PIS itd have to controdict his established strength and it doesnt, its just the most impressive of his feats but the one time he had to support that kind of weight he did it. For a guy who appeared only in ONE story and instantly displayed that kind of strength, its consistent. There'd have to be several examples of him struggling with a lesser weight for us to call PIS on it.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by 753
correct, snake cannot compete with matt and elektra, they cannot compete with fox.
Why cant Snake compete with Matt or Elektra? Speed/strength/reflexes/skill wise he's easilly on their level. Maybe surpasses them in some of those categories even.


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Last edited by SamZED on Aug 4th, 2011 at 04:47 AM

Old Post Aug 4th, 2011 04:44 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Hellboy288
Where does it state that? He attacked Snake and Snake kicked his ass, nothing about him letting Snake beat him. Provide proof of this please. Also provide proof that his suit was malfunctioning on it's own. It's more likely that Fox went insane and left. Also I find it hard to believe that it malfunctioned when it he came back at the end of the game and damaged Rex.

I call it PIS because it is PIS. Learn what PIS is before you simply state "it happened". Snake kicking Gray Fox's ass is what happened. Stop making excuses. Raiden held back a giant ship but had a very hard time fighting Vamp. MGS Cyborgs are plagued with PIS. Consistently they get manhandled my humans. That's more consistent and that's more valid.

Team 2 wins.
snake doesnt beat grey fox. what game did you play? grey fox wanted to experience combat witht he man that killed him once again, because that brought him joy and made him feel alive. the exoskeleton made him clearly superhuman, it is not pis for it to hold the MG's foot. you must be high if you think snake could beat him h2h. he could have ripped snake's arm off with a twitch.

Old Post Aug 4th, 2011 01:41 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by SamZED


Why cant Snake compete with Matt or Elektra? Speed/strength/reflexes/skill wise he's easilly on their level. Maybe surpasses them in some of those categories even.
no he isnt. at all. they have bullet dodging feats and actual superpowers.

Old Post Aug 4th, 2011 01:43 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by 753
no he isnt. at all. they have bullet dodging feats and actual superpowers.
Twin Snakes Snake does, canon MGS Snake doesn't.

Old Post Aug 4th, 2011 03:25 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by SamZED
Hellboy, its different from comicbooks where a character can have 10000+ appearances and usually is shown to be class 2 but lifted a tank on one occason because of some fanboy writer who took over for one issue. Grey Fox has basically 2 showings (two versions of the same game) and in both of them the writers made him strong enough to support Rex's leg. For it to be PIS itd have to controdict his established strength and it doesnt, its just the most impressive of his feats but the one time he had to support that kind of weight he did it. For a guy who appeared only in ONE story and instantly displayed that kind of strength, its consistent. There'd have to be several examples of him struggling with a lesser weight for us to call PIS on it.

Why cant Snake compete with Matt or Elektra? Speed/strength/reflexes/skill wise he's easilly on their level. Maybe surpasses them in some of those categories even.
Well Raiden as a Ninja in MGS4 only appeared in one game [Rising isn't out yet] and his Outer Haven completely contradicts his other showings like struggling with Vamp in 2 fights and needing Snake to free him when the Geckos subdued him. He was able to swing 2 geckos around with his legs but that's a long way off from holding back a giant ship. So I don't think being in one game makes you completely immune to PIS. As for Gray Fox, it's true that he only has 2 or 3 major showings but considering that Snake kicked his ass the first go around I'd say that already contradicts him holding up Rex's leg. People keep saying that Fox let Snake beat on him so he can feel alive but so far no one has showed any proof of that.

As far as Snake goes, regular canon Snake would get decimated by Elektra or Daredevil or most comic street leveler for that matter, he's far too slow, physically weak and no where near durable enough to stand up to class 5 and 6 fighters, let alone class 7's.

Twin Snakes Snake might last a bit longer but would get wrecked. He had some impressive bullet timing feats, he was able to jump 8-10 feet in the air and was able to do a back flip onto a missile but as far as his actual combat showings go there nothing special. It's far too realistic to be competitive in comic book world. His physical strength is nothing special. MGS2 had him unable to break a pair of hand cuffs at the end of the game.

Old Post Aug 4th, 2011 03:32 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by 753
no he isnt. at all. they have bullet dodging feats and actual superpowers.
Snake has bullet dodging feats. By comicbook standarts he'd be called peak human or maybe an enhanced human even.


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Old Post Aug 4th, 2011 03:33 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by SamZED
Snake has bullet dodging feats. By comicbook standarts he'd be called peak human or maybe an enhanced human even.
Twin Snakes Snake does, canon Snake doesn't. Bullet timing doesn't make you peak human either. Elektra herself has sliced a bullet in half mid air and she herself isn't peak human.

Old Post Aug 4th, 2011 03:46 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Hellboy288
Well Raiden as a Ninja in MGS4 only appeared in one game [Rising isn't out yet] and his Outer Haven completely contradicts his other showings like struggling with Vamp in 2 fights and needing Snake to free him when the Geckos subdued him. He was able to swing 2 geckos around with his legs but that's a long way off from holding back a giant ship. So I don't think being in one game makes you completely immune to PIS. As for Gray Fox, it's true that he only has 2 or 3 major showings but considering that Snake kicked his ass the first go around I'd say that already contradicts him holding up Rex's leg. People keep saying that Fox let Snake beat on him so he can feel alive but so far no one has showed any proof of that.

As far as Snake goes, regular canon Snake would get decimated by Elektra or Daredevil or most comic street leveler for that matter, he's far too slow, physically weak and no where near durable enough to stand up to class 5 and 6 fighters, let alone class 7's.

Twin Snakes Snake might last a bit longer but would get wrecked. He had some impressive bullet timing feats, he was able to jump 8-10 feet in the air and was able to do a back flip onto a missile but as far as his actual combat showings go there nothing special. It's far too realistic to be competitive in comic book world. His physical strength is nothing special. MGS2 had him unable to break a pair of hand cuffs at the end of the game.
Snake putting up a fight doesnt controdict GF's established strength. Its just his durability to blunt force isnt on the level as his strength. Plus Snake is far from ordinary human himself. It's the same way someone like Temugin can fight someone like Iron Man. How can you possibly say its PIS? Plot induced stupidity? What does that have to do with anything? Writers had Fox perform that lifting feat because they intended him to be that strong. Its not one crazy showing out of many bad ones. Its the only lifting feat he has. Writers wouldnt have had him do that in his only appearance if they didnt want him to be that strong.

There's no regular Snake and Twin Snakes Snake. Twin Snakes was a fresh take on the story, its canon. With the new generation of consoles konami simply did what they wanted to do all along but couldnt with PSX.

And its not the only time Snake displayed those kinds of speed/strength etc. He did it in other games as well.

Not being able to break cuffs - not the best way to judge strength, we dont know what they were made of and its not like comicbook characters never struggled with ropes or chains as long as the plot required them to.

We've seen Snake and Liquid punch each other so hard it shook the entire metal gear. That's more impressive than any punching feat Matt has. Snake's punch also sent Liquid flying many feet through the air. That's nothing special, just another example. Jumping many feet into the air, dodgig bullets after they're fired. And CQC skills deadlier than most known martial arts. Why do you think all that isnt good enough to fight Daredevil?


quote: (post)
Originally posted by Hellboy288
Twin Snakes Snake does, canon Snake doesn't. Bullet timing doesn't make you peak human either. Elektra herself has sliced a bullet in half mid air and she herself isn't peak human.
He does. MGS2 dodging a bullet after it's fired. Twin Snakes Snake is the canon Snake.


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Last edited by SamZED on Aug 4th, 2011 at 04:00 PM

Old Post Aug 4th, 2011 03:49 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by SamZED
Snake putting up a fight doesnt controdict GF's established strength. Its just his durability to blunt force isnt on the level as his strength. Plus Snake is far from ordinary human himself. It's the same way someone like Temugin can fight someone like Iron Man. How can you possibly say its PIS? Plot induced stupidity? What does that have to do with anything? Writers had Fox perform that lifting feat because they intended him to be that strong. Its not one crazy showing out of many bad ones. Its the only lifting feat he has. Writers wouldnt have had him do that in his only appearance if they didnt want him to be that strong.

There's no regular Snake and Twin Snakes Snake. Twin Snakes was a fresh take on the story, its canon. With the new generation of consoles konami simply did what they wanted to do all along but couldnt with PSX.

And its not the only time Snake displayed those kinds of speed/strength etc. He did it in other games as well.

Not being able to break cuffs - not the best way to judge strength, we dont know what they were made of and its not like comicbook characters never struggled with ropes or chains as long as the plot required them to.

We've seen Snake and Liquid punch each other so hard it shook the entire metal gear. That's more impressive than any punching feat Matt has. Snake's punch also sent Liquid flying many feet through the air. That's nothing special, just another example. Jumping many feet into the air, dodgig bullets after they're fired. And CQC skills deadlier than most known martial arts. Why do you think all that isnt good enough to fight Daredevil?


He does. MGS2 dodging a bullet after it's fired. Twin Snakes Snake is the canon Snake.
Actually it does, if Gray Fox's strength was really sufficient enough to hold up Rex's leg then he would of knocked Snake's head off. Snake doesn't have durability any greater then human level, even a Genome was able to knock him out. I can call it PIS because it contradicts his earlier showing of Snake fighting him. It doesn't matter if it's his only lifting feat either, his earlier showings show that he's no where near that strength range. People keep saying that Gray Fox was holding back but have no proof of this. Until there is proof that Gray Fox was intentionally letting Snake beat on him then I call PIS on the Rex leg feat.

There is a regular and a TS version of Snake. Twin Snake isn't canon. It doesn't fit into MGS Continuity. If Twin Snake was canon then Vamp wouldn't have been able to WTF Pwn Snake in MGS2 and needed Raiden to save him. You might argue that it's because MGS2 came out in 01 while TS came out in 04 but it doesn't change the fact that TS does not fit into continuity therefore it isn't canon

Furthermore Snake even states in MGS4 that he put a ban on CQC yet you clearly see him using it in Twin Snakes.

Liquid and Snake never punched each other so hard that they shook Metal Gear Rex, that was the camera jerking around.

Actually the hand cuffs thing is a fantastic way to judge physical strength, it's the only real meassure of Snake's physical strength that's ever been shown in the series.

CQC isn't deadlier then any martial arts. It's a glorified version of the Marine Line system.
Motosada Mori, the military advisor for MGS learned the techniques while he was SWAT officer. So actually CQC is a grade below the LINE system.

Also do you know why regular martial arts, Taekwondo, Hopkido, Akido etc take longer to develop? Because they require greater motor functions to master these forms but they ultimately produce a more well rounded and effective fighter.

So really, CQC is nothing special.

That's why Snake is unable to contend with Matt or Elektra, he's not skilled enough, he isn't physical capable of contending with them.

You can even watch the Twin Snakes fight between Snake and Gray Fox, it's too slow and realistic to fight comic characters.

Old Post Aug 4th, 2011 04:19 PM
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