Odin's power is reduced to his baseline strength/durability only ; no energy projection/amping or ANY other powers allowed. logan is immortal HF logan. fight takes place on Utopia.
Odin doesn't have some well defined base level. He walks around with far beyond herald level stats without any indication of amping as his encounters with Thor, Surfer, Thanos, Drax, Annihilus, Hela, Mangog and so on show.
That handbook 60 tons crap is just that. To summarize, spite thread.
if the handbook says 60 tons, then it is probably 60 tons; "without any indication of amping" doesn't mean he wasn't amping. Odin doesn't have to be glowing with energies or show any indication of an OF strength amp to achieve that desired effect; it could be a subtle process which is only recognizable when he owns the characters you listed....except thor who is naturally at odin's mercy due to the OF; and against thanos, drax, mangog...he always used some form of amping/energy projection during the course of the battle.
besides, no one listed there is as strong as hercules; hercules has actual raw strength feats which are so uber they rank him among one of the strongest characters in the entire MU (if not the strongest).....and logan beat hercules down during contest of champions 2. with Bone claws. imho, it is inconclusive (at best) as to how this sort of scenario would play out when logan has demonstrated unbeleivable damage soak & the ability to cut open asgardians like thor quite easy while blocking full force hammer swings which have no effect on him.
even if baseline strength odin is class 100+ without amping (he's NOT), how the hell is he going to destroy immortal HF logan who
can regenerate from nothing but a metal skeleton via the phoenix force/jean grey? wouldn't Odin eventually lose via attrition?
Last edited by wildernesss on Aug 13th, 2011 at 11:08 AM
I think this nonesense should end... If you don't want a char using his full power or all his powers, then pick a normal 60 ton brick to fight him. I don't understand the point one tries to prove. That, if you reduce a char to a pale shadow of himself, another much weaker char has a "chance" of beating him? In the end, he will never light a candle in the wind of the other char, if that one hadn't been crippled. There are really enough bricks in every ton range to put against weaker chars, just change the name...
Nothing against you Wilderness, you didn't start this all but things like
Zeus/Odin/Galactus/LT/Thanos "H2H only" vs Hulk/Superman/Zoom/Wolverine etc should stop imho.
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Or most likely, it was pulled out of thin air along with all the other arbitrary limitations placed on Odin in his entry during the time despite contradicting his actual on panel showings.
So let me get this straight, your stance is that Odin might have been amping -despite there being no indication to support this- for no other reason other than he was capable of performing the task?
I'm not sure if your serious here or not. Absence of evidence isn't necessarily evidence of absence but your going too far bud.
Some more leaps. Odin utilizing energy projection doesn't mean that he is simultaneously amping his physical stats significantly.
I'm not sure if your joking. How can you possibly believe that out of the characters I listed -Drax, Thanos, Thor, Surfer, Annihilus, Mangog, Hela etc.- none are as strong as Hercules?
An incredible stupid and/or ignorant thing to say.
Logan was cutting Thor open quite easily, blocked full force hammer swings which had no effect? I'm not sure if your purposefully being idiotic or you actually believe the things your saying.
I am so f*cking tired of this base strength Odin nonsense. I've debate it numerous times and never have I been presented with any actual evidence.
Can you provide me with a scene where Odin or an Odin Force wielder has illustrated anything below Class 100 strength?
This entire task of trying to pin down Odin's strength is quite simply futile and a waste of time.
As for the battle, Odin laughs at Logan and punches his head off, Adamantium and all.
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Last edited by Rage.Of.Olympus on Aug 13th, 2011 at 11:23 AM
I see your point, but I don't think it is quite as pointless as it seems. Odin is constantly stripping/altering thor's power levels to prove a point. whether it be to demonstrate his power over his son, or bend thor to his will. There are cube beings & other abstracts which could do the same to Odin & for the same reasons. perhaps even the OF itself.
Last edited by wildernesss on Aug 13th, 2011 at 11:25 AM
the molecule man, beyonder, mad jim jaspers, LT, franklin richards, legion & others could selectively remove odin's powers in the same way odin controls thor's powers. in other words, how does odin fare against
wolverine level characters if his powers are compromised like thor's often are? is he as resilient as thor under these conditions? etc, etc. that's the idea here.
no, it means he used energy projection to win those fights. he doesn't get that here.
NONE of them (other than Thor) have raw, pure strength feats that rival those of hercules. and thor doesn't count here because he is at the mercy of Odin's OF.....logan beat hercules. with only his BONE claws.
so, what you're saying is that you didn't read that thor/wolverine backup story (which is canon by the way) where that is exactly what happened. denial is not a river in Egypt.
Last edited by wildernesss on Aug 13th, 2011 at 12:03 PM
Okay, and? The end results of the battles are irrelevant. I mentioned those encounters because he illustrated physical stats far beyond herald level whether durability wise or strength wise.
You said no one I listed is as strong as Hercules. Excluding Thor, that listed still included Mangog, Thanos, Drax and Hela.
Unfortunately there is no way to twist what you said so it doesn't project sheer stupidity and/or ignorance. I'd toss the encounters with Surtur onto that list.
And for the record, Thor does count. When Odin uses his ownership over Thor's heritage in a battle, it's made clear. Otherwise he just straight up overpowers him due to having superior power.
Like I said, re-read the comic, because you clearly are misremembering the events.
Anyways, we're deviating from the main point of discussion. Like I said earlier, this base level nonsense is just that. Trying to determine some never before seen or mentioned unamped level of strength is futile. Not to mention the claims you've been throwing around are not actually supported by anything. This 60 ton stupidity needs to end.
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Last edited by Rage.Of.Olympus on Aug 13th, 2011 at 12:22 PM
yes, and he was glowing with energies/energetically amping/ or using energy projection during the course of most (if not all) of those battles, which doesn't just imply, but almost gaurantees he was amping well past his baseline strength/durability.
yes, and?? None of those characters (excluding thor & sutur) have feats that are as uber as hercules greatest feats of raw strength. as for surtur....show me a scan where Odin owns Surtur without any energy projection/amping/etc. as for thor, if baseline Odin was so superior to thor, thor would not have been able to knock Odin straight to the ground in fear itself #1. odin had to turn thor's hammer off via the OF (as per usual).
let me see. logan cut thor open leaving a large bleeding wound. check.logan blocked a hammer blow with his claws. check. you're right, I am misremembering the events...I forgot to mention that thor was screaming in pain when logan attacked.
Last edited by wildernesss on Aug 13th, 2011 at 12:32 PM
maybe; would you say it was stupid if it was a hammerless thor/no amping/energy projection VS wolverine? if so, fine.....if not, what is really the difference here other than it's thor's papa?
immortal healing factor wolverine; meaning he could
essentially regenerate from zero cells & nothing but a metal skeleton via the phoenix force/jean grey.
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