Ganthet 75
Odin 80
Nabu 90
Parallax (Host), Zero Hour Hal 500
Darkseid (New 52), 350
Uatu the Watcher, 70
Exitar, 95
Anti Monitor (New 52), 300
Spectre (Hal Jordan), 500
Spectre (Jim Corrigan) DoT, 500
Or so...
And as Phil said, 200 doesn't mean twice as strong, it means another league, like Universal and multiversal.
Ganthet: 40
Odin: 80
Nabu: 70
parallax: 80
DS: 90
Uatu: 75
Exitar: 110
AM: 120
Spectre (hal): 200+ (irrelevant really, as he should dwarf galactus even in his non full potential state)
Corrigan-Spectre: 150+
AM defeated DS with the ALE which is part of his powerset. So there's that, besides, i consider this a high showing for Darkseid.
You don't have to agree. Nabu has two or three very high end feats but lots of sup-par showings and has been outperformed by his disciples a couple of times.
The black racer whom he controlled under his own power. He may have had the upper hand temporarily but ultimately he was defeated. And im not even denying that Darkseid had a moment of glory.
No it's not like that at all. the dr fate entity is meant to be a trinity of nabu, a male (like kent) and a female (like inza). This has been established several times. That's why you have instances like Inza and Kent imprisoning nabu in the amulet, and so did Hector and Lyta btw.
Kismet is only arguably a lord of order and iirc she was once even stated to be on neither side. There was a bio stating that she was though, so im not sure. But either way, Nabu is in no way more powerful than kismet or dominus. Mordru? They're about equal, or at the very least on the same level. That's been demonstrated in their fights.
Also for space cheese, Nabu created the universe within Fate's amulet which is beyond even Extant with Worloggog's ability to see. Odin has never been able to create a universe ex nihilo and neither has Galactus.
Ok, let me give you a full explanation why i put Darkseid not on the same level as AM, as there are several indicators why he should be below AM outside of their fight.
AM's base power is basically anti life equation. Which has been established to be a legitimate universal or even potentially multiversal (if it is indeed equal to the life equation) power.
Regarding Darkseid, Im going to put aside Darkseid's high showings (vs AM and vs multiversal Alan) as well as his low showings like having trouble with the JLA, power girl giving him trouble and tanking his beams, iirc Mr miracle also had a gadget (boom sphere?) which could absorb his power, and the hellbat fight. Darkseid's average power should be equal to highfather. Why is this the best way to gauge him, you ask? Because darkseid and his forces have been in an eternal stalemate with highfather and new genesis. If Darkseid was truly multiversal like you're claiming him to be, he'd have no problem handling Highfather and new genesis after eons of conflict. I mean, Kyle w/ life equation (which is equal/opposite to the ALE) was far above highfather and his forces. This is also further demonstrated by the fact that Darkseid is below ALE (established several times in the darkseid war). This is quite relevant because AM possesses the ALE.
Also, going by your logic, Darkseid was amped as well. since he absorbed the powers of the old gods in his origin story.
So yes, i definitely think this is a high showing for Darkseid and is why i put him below AM (apart from the fact that y'know... he was actually beaten by AM).
It happened two times, first in JSA #58 where it happened off-panel and in JSA #63 they straight up overpowered him.
But either way, im not sure you understand how things work. Fact is, the Dr fate entity is more complex than just Nabu providing it with power like Galactus infusing surfer with the power cosmic. This is evident by the fact that Nabu himself says that the new Dr fate (utilizing the power of the trinity) is far more powerful than its predecessor. Going by your logic this would be impossible since adding a mere human to the dr fate entity would seem insignificant. However the amalgamation which i mentioned above could result in a power which can affect even nabu himself. Indeed we have seen this a couple of times. This was first shown in (though mostly ignored) Immortal Dr fate story when Inza and Kent merge to defeat lords of order/chaos (Ynar and vandaemon). In Dr Fate v2 #37, it's revealed that Inza was being powered by a lord of chaos all this time, and so she draws power from all the humans of earth - neither chaos nor order - to defeat him, then later in #41 she merged a lord of chaos with a lord of order. In JSA #50, Hector himself said that he possesses the energies of a hundred realms and the powers of both order and chaos (not just nabu), the same thing was mentioned in Dr fate v3 where he also managed to utterly destroy/atomize the curse, something which even Nabu was unable to do in his own battle with the curse. So Dr fate's power doesn't work like the power cosmic at all, it's capable of actually outperforming its master.
Onto Odin vs Nabu.
We have Nabu admitting that he can't manipulate time:
Odin can casually manipulate time. Actually, he even infused mjolnir with time capabilities described to be able to go from the beginning of time till the end of all things (as well as time stops) before Immortus drained its time powers (and even after that mjolnir still had limited time capabilities). But here's an instance where Odin personally stopped time on a planetary scale.
And honestly, looking at their averages, it's pretty clear that Odin is superior. Odin has multiple galactic battles, universal feats, and even multiversal ones, Nabu simply cannot compete.
Her first appearance is saying exactly what i said: Kismet exists between light and dark (order and chaos).
I knew about the bios which is why i mentioned there is a contradiction.
But anyway. Nabu was only ever mentioned to be the most powerful of the lords in DoV where Spectre goes on a rampage killing all magic including the lords. The spectre also clearly not a lord of order yet your scan seems to imply that. so i guess Nabu is more powerful than the spectre as well, no? Despite the fact that the spectre entity was shown to be clearly above Nabu in Spectre v3.
Do you have a scan directly saying Nabu is more powerful than Kismet?
Mordru was stated to be weakened as well. All magic users were, in fact. Because it happened at the time of DoV. Also, for what it's worth, Mordru has battled Hector fate two times previously and they seemed about equal.
Yes it's been actually mentioned that the universe inside his helmet is completely separate from the rest of realities. Anyway, that universe is actually a pocket dimension, so im not sure it qualifies as a full blown universe, still impressive as hell.
Universe creation feat for odin: Odin created a sword named "raven's eye" which created a reality based on wagner's operas:
Ok, but how is that going to affect Darkseid's performance as Black Racer was universal level there and he was needed to kill Darkseid.
So its basically you going "I don't like it so it doesn't matters."
Everybody has low showing. Heck, Galactus was just recently controlled by Fungus.
Further, Batman and Robin and World's end established that Darkseid is not at full power and Multiversity described all new gods as fractured among many universes.
Unless Highfather is that powerful as well. Why does ABC comparison only benefits marvel characters and lowers the DC characters?
And yet Darkseid had upper hand on an amped AM. Don't like that, do you?
That's the source of his power. What are you talking about?
With the help of Black Racer.
With his own power.
Yes, the power of trinity was capable of utilizing all of Nabu's power. Kent alone was never able to utilize Nabu's full power.
You know how childish you look? Odin himself said that he can't manipulate time in Fear Itself.
Further, Nabu would've reversed Zero Hour itself.
Odin has a lot of low showings as well. Nabu is a lot superior on average when you look how he has appeared in at most 50 issues.
And where did Odin has multiversal showings?
And she is herself a lord of order.
There isn't. Her origin herself said she was ascending to be a lord of order.
Going per the comic, yes. It's before Zero hour when Spectre was Depowered by The Word and the lords of order claimed that they were the Word in Phantom Stranger miniseries. Spectre also claimed that he was a servant of lords.
Spectre v3 retconned that Spectre was the wrath of God and above Lords.
And Nabu was straight up said to be the most powerful Lord of Order in Fate.
No, magic was weakened. Nabu was weakened further because he appeared without a host body.
Mordru was weakened the second time and first time it was Nabu who beat him by taking him under the amulet.
Where is it said that it was a pocket universe? Scan please.
Don't try to bullshit me. Ravenseye was lodged into Yggdrasil which warped the already existing Asgard into a false Asgard. It also warped Odin into a hobo.
Where is a single universe creating feat from Odin or Galactus? Even Amethyst destroyed an entire reality created by Mordru in 31st century and she is far weaker than Nabu.
You seem to have lost track of the point being made here. My entire point is that it wasn't Black racer helping AM to destroy darkseid. It was AM forcibly taking control of the racer which destroyed DS.
What are you even talking about? You asked why would i rate AM above DS, i provided proof of the reasons based on indicators outside of their fight. If you don't like my reasoning
That's the same darkseid that battled the anti monitor though. And two of those showings happened in the E2 series, the same one where DS fought multiversal Alan.
You're not listening. Kyle w/ life equation (which is the opposite to ALE) was well above Highfather and the new gods (who are locked in an eternal stalemate with DS). Yet AM is merged with ALE. Highfather was also pretty confident that he could beat darkseid with the equation. That's the indicators i was talking about. There is no lowballing here going on.
And yet, AM actually beat Darkseid. Something which you seem to be conveniently missing. It's not uncommon for a weaker character to temporarily gain an upper hand on a more powerful character only to lose in the end.
Not entirely as i recall. In Infinity man & the forever people series we're shown flashbacks of Uxas opposing his father yuga, killing him and his armies.
No you have that wrong. Nabu is actually one of the trinity:
Now, the dr fate entity should be wielded by nabu (who mostly acts as a guiding voice) along with the couples (male/female). In most cases, the dr fate entity draws its power from nabu, but in many other cases, it doesnt (see the examples i provided previously), so it's not entirely dependent on nabu's personal power. His independency is further supported by the fact that the amulet was revealed to have been created by anubis rather than nabu in JSA #42.
I thought we settled this?
Irrelevant. they straight up overpowered him. Clearly depicted.
He doesn't really have a lot. In thor comics (including minis, one-shots, annual and other arcs which tie in with thor events), he has hundreds of appearances and i have calculated that he has 18 low showings. Nabu has about 7 or 8 in several dozen appearances.
His battle against Seth. And Odin once infused thor with OF to temporarily hold his own against thanos who gained multi-universal power (in Thor v2).
A direct statement from the comic would seal this.
But at this point, that's neither here or there.
What does any of this have to do with being childish...? Anyway, i don't recall Odin saying he can't manipulate time in FI, post a scan otherwise im not buying it.
Given time, yes, perhaps he could've. But he never demonstrated the casual reality warping/universal feats which Odin has.
Im eagerly awaiting your scan.
It doesn't change the fact that Mordru outright stated that "every spell feels like a mountain".
The second time as in the Princes of Darkness arc? I don't recall him being weakened there...
Yes, it's not like they battled and nabu overpowered him, he merely imprisoned him.
Yes but Phantom stranger's source of power has been retconned. It's been ever changing actually, and so this is pretty much an isolated incident.
In AC #641-644 it's shown that PS's powers comes from humanity. In his solo series we're shown that the lords are his source of power and hence why they are able to depower him. In the Demon series he says that his power comes from a higher realm. In secret origins #10 we're shown that his power comes from the big bang (and this is the most likely origin since madame xanadu #10, the most recent account pre-FP, it's stated that his power comes from the beginning of time)
This is relevant because later on in in GL/Superman: Green of the flame, the lords couldn't do jack shit against the stranger.
Yes, this is actually Nabu's highest portrayal. No argument there.
On another note, the helmet in that series was depicted to be ridiculously powerful. Definitely worth mentioning in Nabu's favor. I mean, i would rather be inclined to post Nabu's good showings rather than his lows. But you're the one who forces me to do this when you ignore everything apart from his high showings. So the inevitable end result is that im the one who's low balling. That's me, the DC hater.
First of all there were different versions of characters in that reality, so it didn't warp them. Secondly, It created a new one. And the creation feat was specifically attributed to ravens eye not the tree. I already posted the scan.
When did that happen? im not sure i recall anything of the sort. Also, amethyst isn't that far weaker than Nabu really, she's quite powerful and has done some nifty things. But ok, Hela's battle with mephisto was about to cause omniversal destruction, yet hela is far weaker than Odin. Good luck trying to trump that.
Alright. Although im not surprised. That series portrayed Odin in a very low manner except for the epilogue issue where Odin impressively shows Tony a glimpse of infinity and displays limited omnipresence.
Fear Itself(more specifically: Matt Fraction) is really what started Odin's downward spiral into the absolute shit character he has become. He never recovered from that -- if anything, he's gotten worse.
As for the 'glimpse of the infinite' scene: it seemed to me that Odin merely shared his cosmic awareness with Tony for a brief moment... Which is cool and all, but hardly something I was overly impressed by. /shrug
__________________
"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
Last edited by Galan007 on Jun 13th, 2017 at 01:47 AM
While I dont disagree with Nabu below Odin (Just) the scan where he said he couldnt bend the flow of time was of Nabu in a mortal form (his ancient egyptian body) which weakens him significantly. There is a reason he needed to rest in that tomb and hand over the mantle. The same can be confirmed when Darkseid visited Nabu when he occupied Kents body. He stated there the limitations (which were MUCH greater considering just how much magic that body had wielded over 90 odd years). I mean surely we wouldnt place the limit on Nabu of struggling with great effort to magically pull back the overflown bath water as he did in that form???
I'm more curious why some have Corrigan Spec behind Hal. I'd agree GA Spec is but post SA (bronze age and modern) Jim would surely be superior, or is it a balancing of the overall portrayals?
KMC Community Forums
Jun 11th, 2017 05:42 PM
