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tough fight tbh. i doubt she can pull any transmutation tricks through his shields so that would take away her biggest weapon. her tp would also be useless against him. hrm. she may have more raw power (been stated she is the most powerful of the eternals somewhere) but mags might be one of the few in his class who could take her for a majority. good fight.
Why do you doubt it? The only time it's failed to get through a shield was against IW and her shields are hyperspace constructs (something Magneto has no access to).
Sersi wins.
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because it's never happened and his shields have proven capable of withstanding practically every form of attack they've ever come of against. complex structure has prevented/blocked her transmutation skills in the past, and mag's shield shifts its structure at will. she has some good energy control feats. if she could manipulate the em energy of his shield then she might be able to effect him directly, but...that's mag's forte so i don't see it happening at all. he has the advantage here imo.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
i'd have to find the scan i'm thinking of. when she was kidnapped by the gatherers or proctor, she was cuffed and couldn't transmute them because they were too complex. she's also failed to get through shielding in the past, aside from sue. to get through his shield she'd need to manipulate past it. you could show some feats of her transmuting someone through a force field i guess. complexity, as i said, does hinder her powers. and no shields are more complex than mags'.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
how does cm getting through as light suggest that sersi's powers would get through...? mags has also been able to control visual light as easily as any other em energy, so he should have been capable of keeping her out pretty easily. but by making his shield opaque of course, he wouldn't be able to see....
btw nice job of flipping this into trying to make me prove a negative. if you're so convinced she can transmute through a force field, should be easy enough to show. we know already she failed with sue. do we know it's only hyperspace energy she fails against? i'll show you that complexity affects her ability to transmute as well, and see if i can find her using powers against a force field, but feel free to show some positive support for your stance. ANY scan of her operating through any force field would lend support. as of now we have her only failing against sue. and hyperspace is simply energy after all--movement of electrons.
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Last edited by leonidas on Jun 16th, 2017 at 02:05 PM
Good fight - some interesting debates going on here.
Can he make opaque shields? Probably he might be able to draw matter into them. But in any case, CM said "certain forms of energy" which may not refer to visible light. Actually magnetic field shielding shouldn't really affect most of the energy CM could transmute to - gamma rays, radio waves etc. Even allowing for Magneto's seemingly extra non-magnetic powers that seem to give some limited effect on these, she may just have better control of her own (non-magnetic) energy while he is the master of magnetism. She also turned into neutrinos on occasion, which Magneto shouldn't have any effect on, and which he has never been shown to be able to control. But CM is a topic for another day just thought it was interesting...
I'm trying to think of other occasions where she came up against a force field that might help. But yeah, the problem is that Sue's fields work nothing like Mags, and have their own inconsistencies like blocking some TP but not others - they don't tell us much about Mag's abilities here.
Also trying to recall the full story with the Proteus thing, and whether he wasn't really at full power.
As for Sersi, even if he is capable of blocking her transmutation, cosmic blasts, TP, super strength and so on she has pretty good defenses too. With full control over her own molecules I doubt he can do much there, and she can probably transmute anything he throws at her. She could try creating non-metallic weapons and beating/skewering him with those - though this has worked inconsistently against Mags depending on the writer. She could probably try raising the temperature around him (this has weakened his magnetism on some occasions). She could also try sneak attacks - Mags does need to breath new air eventually so she could try stuff like covertly removing oxygen from all around him (or around his shielding) or maybe creating extremely deadly invisible substances, toxins, nerve gas, etc in the environment that he doesn't notice until it's too late.
Tough one to pick. I'm thinking they would mostly stalemate though both could pull of a win if someone gets careless. If I had to choose maybe Sersi gets the very slight edge.
Last edited by basilisk on Jun 16th, 2017 at 03:27 PM
The reason why I posted the scan is not to show that Sersi would get through his shields using her matter manipulation powers, I posted the scan as a rebuttal to this statement of yours :
" if she could manipulate the em energy of his shield then she might be able to effect him directly, but...that's mag's forte so i don't see it happening at all."
CM bypassed his shields using energy in the EM spectrum. Nothing fancy. Nothing beyond Sersi's power.
No ones trying to make you prove a negative. I just wanted to point out that Sue's force fields aren't your run of the mill light or energy constructs (like Quasar or Klaw's). They are composed of energy from hyperspace, the same energy that powers the freaking Celestials.
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ah, ok. but cm's energy manip feats>sersi so just because cm did it, doesn't mean sersi could bypass them. he has loads of em manip feats as well and his level of energy control likely matches hers overall.
that doesn't really mean much though. energy is still energy. she's also be unable to really affect exodus, and his energy is just psionic in nature. there are clear limits to her transmutation powers. bas added a few points that are solid and i'll address them at some point. hopefully i can get that scan for you later today or tomorrow.
The main reason CM defeated Mags was her speed. Magneto had left his shields permeable to visible light so Monica could take him out before he could react. Her entire body consists of electromagnetic radiation, i.e. of electric and magnetic fields. If Magneto had the time he could seriously mess her up. Just like he did to Proteus.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
yeah, thing with mags though is he has been shown to be able to control/affect the entire EM spectrum. he's even gone invisible in the past. his shields have held effortlessly against a nuclear detonation and that of course releases...nearly every type of radiation you can think of including gamma and x-rays. even your neutrino example might not be true as they can be affected by strong magnetic fields. of course that's in RL and mags' powers don't always reflect what he could do in the real world. his shields have held against...damn near everything including energy that isn't even em in nature. again, proteus:
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tbh, i've sort of always seen that monica scene as a bit of PIS. he's easily had his shields constantly shifting through frequencies and almost anything she could become he should be able to stop. visible light is the most obvious by-pass imo and explains what happened there. to me at least. had he expected her, based on his feats of the past, i'd say he could keep her out.
could monica's own control though supersede his so she sort of...bludgeon's her way through his shield? maybe. but you're right, that is something altogether different. sersi is not cm in terms of energy manipulation so it's a bit moot. cm vs mags is a good thread discussion though.
well, in galactic storm, she wasn't able to penetrate a force field that surrounded a space ship--not without thor and quasar's help, and pretty sure that would be a pretty basic type of force field.
and here again, she can't transmute the cuffs she's held in, or in fact any of the brethren at all:
and certainly neither the brethren nor their tech is especially awesome. they were tough enough to be sure, but.... like i said to zop--complex structure can cause her powers to fail. his shields, with shifting frequencies, are enormously comlex. and i don't see her being able to challenge his control over the em field in anyway. she's got decent energy control, but this is mags' strength. again, she's not monica.
he was at full power, but he did divide his consciousness by possessing a couple others. he was still capable of altering reality at a whim and magneto himself was actually dying during the battle. if we allow for proteus to be slightly weakened, mags was likely more so, relatively.
his shields would block whatever she threw at him anyway. and you're right, she has pretty good defenses, but it may come down to the better multi-tasker. mag's can easily keep his shields up and fight with his full power--he did it against proteus. she doesn't really have those types of showings to my knowledge. could she shield and attack? i dunno. we know he can though, and has throughout his career.
you're right too in the sense that he may not be able to 'kill' her, or control the iron in her blood, but sheer impact and blunt trauma have been enough to ko her on several occasions, so control of her structure wouldn't mean much if he ko'd her with a blast, like for example blastarr has done, pretty easily, in the past. and mag's powers are definitely on par, at least, with blastarr's.
agreed. if she gets really creative, and he doesn't realize what's happening, she could take him out. i just don't see her turning him into a toad through his shields. her powers were maxxed against exodus, someone else she couldn't affect--in fact her powers were barely enough to hold him, briefly, in their first encounter. if she couldn't penetrate his psionic shields, i don't like her odds of simply bypassing mag's shields.
mostly the way i see it though i'd give magneto the edge here. if it went on for too long she'd win through attrition given her stamina advantage. i just think the majority of her greatest weapons--tp/tk, transmutation--would be fairly useless against him, at least directly. she'd need to be really smart and creative to find a way to bypass his shields while being real careful not to get ko'd before she found something that worked.
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Last edited by leonidas on Jun 17th, 2017 at 10:04 PM
She was a beast in Blood ties. It's a good debate to be had worth a battlezone to be honest cause without the shield Magneto can be turned into a pig quite easily and taking her down isn't an easy task
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
without a shield he's completely f'd. just haven't really seen any reason to think she could simply bypass it. with it in place, it is certainly a debatable outcome. i think it's really close. most just see sersi's name and assume it's an instant win for her. not the case here. least not imo.
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Jun 16th, 2017 06:55 AM
we know he can though, and has throughout his career.
