Orion, like him or not, is a pretty vicious (and powerful) fighter.
How would he do against the classic WS Authority team (jenny Sparks not Quantum) in a no prep no BFR fight, set in say, Los Angeles?
-Midnighter, Swift, and Jenny Sparks are cannon fodder
-Engineer and Hawksmoor may be difficult to put down, but won't be serious threats to Orion
-Apollo is good for a temporary distraction
So the whole fight turns on whether or not the Doctor can deal with Orion. Simply dimension shunting him won't do it, cause boomtubes, but that could buy him the time to get more creative.
I love the Authority, but if Orion was in bloodlust mode, he'd likely HACK the carrier via Mother Box AND destroy the Authority with one huge Astro Force attack. Same energy that contained and matched universal destroying energies.
No, this is a mismatch. The Doctor solos. And the rest combined could likely put him down. Separating them out to say that Orion is above each is misleading, because Angie, Jack, and Apollo could all do damage.
He's also not hacking the Carrier, if it's even in the fight, while in the middle of a heated battle. That's dumb. But if the Carrier is around, it's more of a mismatch, bc Midnighter wouldn't engage him directly and would pull a move like he did when he fought Apollo or the evil Doctor. MNer might just crash the Carrier into Orion, tell the Doctor to teleport out just before, and let Orion deal with the force of a big bang unleashed.
It's also not first strike with the Doctor. He's reformed after being exploded on at least two occasions I can think of. Lack of knowledge about the Authority hadn't been an issue here in recent years, but it seems to have come into this thread. Majestic is a reasonable analogue, yeah? The Doctor froze him indefinitely while sipping on a soda and exchanging quips with Jack. This fight ends quick.
One of my favorite feats is that time he fought some monster on the moon, and Batman had to tell him to knock it off because he was shaking the Earth apart from the aftershocks.
All out, at his best, and without any prep from Authority, he has all the tools.. His "boom tube" negates the doors, and should help with a lot of Doctors effects, his overall speed is generally able to keep up with Lightray (Speeds around the sun at 10x lightspeed and avoids Black Racer..) his stats are top notch, the Astro Force offers good offense (In Death of the New Gods, he did an alpha strike on Kalibak and Mantis, where Superman happened to be in the way. Took them all out.) and defense (Blocks a universe buster.)
If you wanted to give Orion prep (Or even both teams), then he built a goddarmed universe buster called the Genesis Box, in Rock of Ages. Wiped out creation to erase Darkseid's "taint" from it, whatever that means.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
In a random encounter, I always had Majestic as soloing them, and Orion is easily on his tier.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
The Doctor can fight in the center of the sun unphased and has reformed his brain after it got punched out of his skull and wasn't in one piece (and again when he was exploded and basically inside-out before reforming). How is Orion beating him before he thinks "Stop" and immobilizes him? Orion's fast, but this isn't Flash. Let's be real. Attacks are being made on both sides.
Matter manip rules don't work the same in WS either. There's no writer fiat keeping them from using it offensively. Orion ends this fight as a literal cupcake if the Doctor wants.
I wouldn't be surprised if Orion is able to hack the Carrier. The Mother Box has been crazy haxx lately. And the combined might of the Authrity can take down orion? Nah, doubtful.
Orion easily tooled Hal Jordan, who was owning Parallax and Sinestro with ease. Orion OWNED that Hal.
Is this during the fight against a multi-universe-saving team? I really want to know what fight you're envisioning if you think this hacking - which is far from assured (The Carrier is sentient, from the future, and has multiversal capability) - but how the hacking is going on concurrent to the fight. It defies logic, real world OR comic book.
Also, read the OP. BFR is out, which I assume removes boom tubes, doors, Carrier, etc.
You also explained the Mother Box" Multiversal, sentient, and probably more versatile. I just have more faith in NG tech than any other tech in comics. There is really nothing it can't do.
But, like you said, BFR is out of the equation.
Orion still has a MB, and that can potentially be the winner for him.
If you think Orion will win, not much else I'd say will convince you probably. But what I'll say is, if you think Orion is in the high herald tier, he's fodder to the Doctor. Period. Among the many praises I sing for Authority, they had the worst ever "guy too powerful for the team" problem (especially before Quantum, but then they just sorta had the same problem with two of them), and the narrative gymnastics they did to keep the Doctor out of fights was hilariously obvious at times. Then when he got serious, the number of times he no-sold or didn't even have to try to defeat individuals or even teams of beings in this power neighborhood should make this an open and shut thread. But there's this weird recency bias that I think affects anyone who hasn't been active in years. So we're having this discussion.
I think it's lowballing to say he rolls the rest of the team, but I'd be cool with giving Orion the win over everyone but the Doctor. But once you include him, this really isn't a contest.
I agree with all of this, with the caveat that there's room between rolling a team and beating them, and I think Orion likely takes the rest of Authority sans Doctor. Some members would be hard to put down, but it would mostly be a one-way fight.
I totally forgot about Doctor reforming though. /srug.
In Simonson's run, a member of the Deep Six transmutated life across an entire sea into "Joker fish". He tried outright killing Orion with his power, and the best he could do is take his skin off and cause some pain (Which only made him mad, and triggered the mother of all beat downs.
And if we're assuming different rules, I'd argue someone who can cure blindness by ripping out someones eyes and popping them into his own head probably plays off a different ruleset then most.
__________________ What CDTM believes;
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
Never let anyone else define you. Don't be a jerk just to be a jerk, but if you are expressing your true inner feelings and beliefs, or at least trying to express that inner child, and everyone gets pissed off about it, never NEVER apologize for it. Let them think what they want, let them define you in their narrow little minds while they suppress every last piece of them just to keep a friend that never liked them for themselves in the first place.
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Dec 12th, 2017 08:18 PM
