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Atheist morality
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Darth Revan
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Atheist morality

Is there such a thing? Apparently, most Americans don't think so:

"A new study by the Minnesota Department of Sociology found, according to its researchers, that 'Americans rate atheists below Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and other minority groups in "sharing their vision of American society." Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are least willing to allow their children to marry.'"

http://www.eugeneweekly.com/2006/05/04/views4.html


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Old Post Jun 4th, 2006 02:30 AM
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Rapscallion
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Do you really care about the opinions of people who are prejudice against muslims, gays, and immigrants? So some people who don't like minorities found another minority to hate. It doesn't have anything to do with whether or not atheists are moral.


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Old Post Jun 4th, 2006 04:17 AM
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Storm
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Morality doesn' t require religion. My consideration for other people is not based upon what some god tells me to do.


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Old Post Jun 4th, 2006 10:28 AM
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Ushgarak
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Hang on, that's a loaded question.

You ask a bunch of people that are more likely than not to be religious about what kind of people share their views of what American society is... why the heck is there any surprise that they rate the people with no religion at all as being outside of this? Clearly they simply see religion as part of American society, because they are religious!

What a pointless exercise.

I really don't think it is any commentary on whether they can have morals.


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Old Post Jun 4th, 2006 10:57 AM
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Ya Krunk'd Floo
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Hang on, that's a loaded question.

You ask a bunch of people that are more likely than not to be religious about what kind of people share their views of what American society is... why the heck is there any surprise that they rate the people with no religion at all as being outside of this? Clearly they simply see religion as part of American society, because they are religious!

What a pointless exercise.

I really don't think it is any commentary on whether they can have morals.


Well said.

As a starting point, using the views of generally religious Americans on the morals of aethiests is a posta non-grata.


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Last edited by Ya Krunk'd Floo on Jun 4th, 2006 at 11:34 AM

Old Post Jun 4th, 2006 11:26 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Hang on, that's a loaded question.

You ask a bunch of people that are more likely than not to be religious about what kind of people share their views of what American society is... why the heck is there any surprise that they rate the people with no religion at all as being outside of this? Clearly they simply see religion as part of American society, because they are religious!

What a pointless exercise.

I really don't think it is any commentary on whether they can have morals.


Niiice. thumb up


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Old Post Jun 4th, 2006 01:56 PM
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Boris
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How ironic.

Old Post Jun 4th, 2006 03:31 PM
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debbiejo
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Hang on, that's a loaded question.

You ask a bunch of people that are more likely than not to be religious about what kind of people share their views of what American society is... why the heck is there any surprise that they rate the people with no religion at all as being outside of this? Clearly they simply see religion as part of American society, because they are religious!

What a pointless exercise.

I really don't think it is any commentary on whether they can have morals.
That's very true....Asking religious people what they think of Atheists....LOL

Isn't it biased? I believe most Americans feel, it's better to believe in some god, then nothing at all........They'll tell you that too, but then they'll also condemn you/convert you to the right god if you believe in the wrong god......

Like asking stanch vegetarians what they think of evil meat eaters...

Old Post Jun 4th, 2006 03:48 PM
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LatinoStallion
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Morality is independent of religion. One's individual morality is independent of many things.

It is very dependent however, on one's experiences, biases, and pre-misconeptions.


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Old Post Jun 4th, 2006 09:20 PM
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LatinoStallion
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Oh yeah....and relations with other people.


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Old Post Jun 4th, 2006 09:20 PM
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LatinoStallion
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If you lived on an island by youself, you probably wouldn't develop your own sense of morality.


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Old Post Jun 4th, 2006 09:20 PM
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Bardock42
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
If you lived on an island by youself, you probably wouldn't develop your own sense of morality.


Yeah you would, can't really be a thinking person without developing a sort of morality.


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Old Post Jun 4th, 2006 09:29 PM
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LatinoStallion
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah you would, can't really be a thinking person without developing a sort of morality.


Yes you can. There are people who don't beleive in morality. Ask PVS...ask many others.If your born to a realm where you have no contact with other human beings, and you are surrounded by wild animals, your only concern will be survival.

If you do develop a sense of morality it will be the most minimal amount you can imagine, and only based on impulse and emotion. Your inaccess to other human beings will render your logical development non existant.


I still beleive the most important element to developing your own sense of morality is exposure to other human beings. We already know that as children we develop our morality through the influences of our parents, then peers. You won't develop one growing up alone and totally isolated.


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Old Post Jun 4th, 2006 09:50 PM
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The Omega
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Revan
Is there such a thing? Apparently, most Americans don't think so:

"A new study by the Minnesota Department of Sociology found, according to its researchers, that 'Americans rate atheists below Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and other minority groups in "sharing their vision of American society." Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are least willing to allow their children to marry.'"

http://www.eugeneweekly.com/2006/05/04/views4.html


Interesting that said Department starts out assuming that atheists are NOT Americans.
“Americans rate atheists…”
So you American atheists, according to the Minnesota Department of Sociology you are not Americans.

Urizen> Why do you think a cognient human alone on an island cannot develop a sense of what she thinks is right and wrong?


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Old Post Jun 4th, 2006 10:10 PM
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Bardock42
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PVS is a very reasonable being, I doubt that he denies that subjective morals exist.

But even if he does, well, they do exist (as certain as I exist..which, isn't much certainty at all, imo) and everyone has them, even if it is a morality of pure selfishness..you just can't be a thinking being without developing a moral code for yourself (as basic as it may be).

quote: (post)
Originally posted by The Omega
Urizen> Why do you think a cognient human alone on an island cannot develop a sense of what she thinks is right and wrong?
Hehe, I like how you said she.....


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Old Post Jun 4th, 2006 10:22 PM
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Ordo
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Lets try an axperiment. I can see evidence both ways. WHo wants to be born alone on an island?

Pro independant morality >> Natural inclinations related to the survival of the species (You usually don't feel good if you hurt someone)

Anti independant morality >> SOcietal overtones and learned behavior (Homosexulaity is wrong)

Bottom line...its untestable. You are going to learn behavior based on other humans actions around you. SInce no child can survive independantly from infancy, we're never goin gto get a concrete answer.


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Old Post Jun 4th, 2006 10:58 PM
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Bardock42
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Alliance
Lets try an axperiment. I can see evidence both ways. WHo wants to be born alone on an island?

Pro independant morality >> Natural inclinations related to the survival of the species (You usually don't feel good if you hurt someone)

Anti independant morality >> SOcietal overtones and learned behavior (Homosexulaity is wrong)

Bottom line...its untestable. You are going to learn behavior based on other humans actions around you. SInce no child can survive independantly from infancy, we're never goin gto get a concrete answer.


But you will have some sort of morality...I mean morality is not just interaction between humans...it's towards animals...and things...and most of all towards oneself...so everyone has an own morality....that doesn't mean that you have to consider their morals....moral.


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Old Post Jun 4th, 2006 11:02 PM
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Ordo
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I wasn't debating the relativity of morals or the presence of them.

I was addressing the origin of morality and the island debate, saying it was untestable and neither you or Urizin could find a testable way to prove your point.

Honestly, like most things associated with higher inter-species communication, I think its is a combination of learned behavior and biological determinism.


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Old Post Jun 4th, 2006 11:04 PM
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Bardock42
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Alliance
I wasn't debating the relativity of morals or the presence of them.

I was addressing the origin of morality and the island debate, saying it was untestable and neither you or Urizin could find a testable way to prove your point.

Honestly, like most things associated with higher inter-species communication, I think its is a combination of learned behavior and biological determinism.


Why do you think it is untestable?

Also, you don't need to test something to be sure it is true....


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Old Post Jun 4th, 2006 11:07 PM
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Ordo
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Physical evidence is the easiest way to back up an argument. True things can be tested, if not physically, then intellecutally.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Alliance
Since no child can survive independantly from infancy, we're never going to get a concrete answer.


Thats why its untestable.

Behavior is a very physical concept, it is best examined physically, especially becasue we have such a limited knowledge of its concrete neurobiological workings.


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Old Post Jun 4th, 2006 11:16 PM
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