Satan should be able to be forgiven if he asks forgiveness according to all gods creations (people) asking, but Satan might be considered different because he was never human but an angel. Never the less, angels have free will just as humans and IMO be forgiven for transgressions. The Bible says there is NO sin that cannot be forgiven.
Well, if "God" is all powerful and all knowing... that means he was responsible for satan, which means that he will clearly not "forgive" Satan. Why? Because God wanted an opposing force (Satan would basically be a straw man argument) and God has Satan exactly where he want him.
I think as far as this whole satan/god thing is, people can't have it both ways. If there is a god which all good, then there has to be an equal opposing force which is all evil - devil. Not made by God, or cursed by God, but sort of independent of his creation.
Kind of like, one cannot be without the other.
But to implement the whole ''god made satan'' is a bit illogical, in my opinon.
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في هذا العالم ثلاثة أشخاص أفسدوا البشرية : راعي غنم , طبيب و راكب الجمال , و راكب الجمال هو أسوأ نشال و أسوأ مشعوذ بين الثلاثة
Gender: Unspecified Location: With Cinderella and the 9 Dwarves
I don't get this logic, why would there have to be an equal opposing force. If God created everything like he wanted it and we assume (for a second, and falsely) that he is all good then he could have made something that is all good without there being evil.
Technically it wouldn't be any need.
If God is all powerful and all knowing, he would have destroyed the ones who betrayed him.
He would technically make Heaven for people, and there would be all...harmonious.
But how can a creature which is made by God, who is perfect, to do imperfect things?
This whole think makes little sense anyway.
Aren't we doomed cos Satan persuaded Eve to give Adam the apple? Or something to that effect.
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في هذا العالم ثلاثة أشخاص أفسدوا البشرية : راعي غنم , طبيب و راكب الجمال , و راكب الجمال هو أسوأ نشال و أسوأ مشعوذ بين الثلاثة
Gender: Male Location: Southern Oregon,
Looking at you.
That is correct according to Christian mythology. However, I don't like the idea of Satan because it allows people to dodge responsibility for their actions. For example; “the devil made me do it”, or “I was tempted and week, and Satan took advantage of me”. The truth is, we are the author of good and evil, and until we take responsibility for the things we do, we will simply have no power to change.
Gender: Male Location: Southern Oregon,
Looking at you.
The entire idea behind Christianity is compelling because it gives us all the excuses we need. Then it tells us we are special and superior to non-Christians because we will go to heaven and they will go to hell.
Once you buy into this way of thinking, rationalization takes care of the rest. So it does not matter if things don’t make sense to the logical mind, because Christians are told that the logical mind is evil.
It would be easier to deal if only Christians thought as such. Once you have groups and groups of people with the same mind regarding religion - it gets difficult.
Anyway, using the same logic - what would happen if God forgives Satan. What if Satan repents and asks for forgiveness?
Will that make all people inevitably good?
Will we all die, cos there will be no need for testing?
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في هذا العالم ثلاثة أشخاص أفسدوا البشرية : راعي غنم , طبيب و راكب الجمال , و راكب الجمال هو أسوأ نشال و أسوأ مشعوذ بين الثلاثة
I think God made the devil, to give us a choice, so we have the right to choose which path we want to follow? So in some sense he gives us freedom? However if he already knows what is going to happen to all of us in the future, he already knows if we choose god or not, so how is that free?
Gender: Male Location: Southern Oregon,
Looking at you.
It is a noble act to forgive someone who does not deserve forgiveness. So, why doesn't god forgive satan? If god did forgive satan, then the mythology of Christianity would fall apart. The simple answer is that both god and satan do not exist in the way that Christians and others believe. They are icons that represent aspects of human nature. Therefore the real question should be can we forgive our selves?
Gender: Male Location: Drifting off around the bend
Mormons believe that angels are messengers of God. Given this, angels can be anything, and it does not necessarily reference some entity that is non human. Also, Biblical reference does not necessitate Cherubim, Angels, Seraphim, etc. as being anything other than a position, a title.
Mormons also believe that Satan was a spirit just like all men. We believe that prior to creation God presented the method and process that mortality would occur, which was necessary for the spirits to gain physical bodies, which is necessary to become more than a spirit. Satan stated that agency was a poor choice and suggested a plan where he would limit agency so as to insure proper behavior of all man. Jesus stated that Satan's plan was flawed and stated that he would lead man and allow him his agency as God presented the plan. Satan became angry and felt humiliated, he left, and one third of the hosts of heaven followed him. They are spirits and will never gain a body due to the fact that now is the time to gain a body.
The Bible is speaking to man. There is no reason to believe either way concerning whether the sin of Satan can or cannot be forgiven, especially given the amount of knowledge Satan has, and had at the time of his sin.
If man is literally the image of God, then man has the capability of such held in an imperfect form. If God is capable of anything, why would those created in his image not be capable of everything? We are capable of good or evil, if we were not, and were created in God's image then God would be limited in his ability. Also, if God is capable of Good, then by virtue of logic he is capable of Evil, regardless of whether he would ever be evil. Given this, perfection is capable of evil, why would you create a being that is not modeled after perfection? Claiming that God is responsible for our actions and also Satan's is declining responsibility for one's own actions. If man is not responsible for his actions then there would be no need for punishment. Satan is responsible for his own actions as well.
Satan's nature is the same as ours. A murderer is not forgiven because his nature makes him a murderer, there are always options, agency requires the making of choices. Choices are ours to make, Satan is no different.
Opposition to good does not necessitate an avatar of such. Satan is not God's opposite, he is Christ's. Christ is a creation of God's.
Did they betray him? Or did they merely choose a path that was not in line with God's will? If God grants agency, then one must be allowed to act upon things with this agency, if they are not allowed this then agency is void. All are judged at the time appointed for such to allow for time to request forgiveness, given this evil continues until the time for it to be judged. To act quickly would void any opportunity for forgiveness.
Forced harmony is not a good thing. Agency is important. This forced environment would be contrary to the teachings of the Bible. Force has never been considered a good means of acquiring peace.
Can God do anything? Yes. We are patterned after God/perfection, and he is capable of being imperfect, thus we are capable of imperfection because God is capable of everything.
Biblical religions hold that Christ's Atonement cleared man of eternal spiritual death/hell (separation from God), and allowed for forgiveness due to his satisfying of the eternal law of cause and effect/justice. Given this man can repent/ allow Christ to bear the consequence of our actions and be capable of returning to God when the appointed time comes.
God created us in his image, with the intent that we could become more like him. He doesn't judge us, per say, we behave as we do and that allows us a manner of existence dependent on if our behavior is in line with the laws that exist that allow for types of action. You cannot make a cake if you through all the ingredients in a bowl and don't stir before baking, some things are only possible if one is in line with the laws governing those abilities. And remember agency is important.
I understand where you get this idea from, but please don't lump all Christians together, I don't feel that I fit this and consider myself Christian. I understand who you are speaking to with the term Christian here, but I do feel that some may not.
I disagree with your appraisal of God and Satan's existence, but then we will disagree on that and it does not have to be discussed.
Forgiveness will be given, but those forgiven will still need to behave in a particular manner to be capable of performing as existence in heaven requires. Given this God will not force proper behavior, agency is important.
KMC Community Forums
Can Satan be Forgiven?
Sep 7th, 2006 11:35 AM
