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Let's talk about Sodom and Gomorrha.
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Zeal Ex Nihilo
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Let's talk about Sodom and Gomorrha.

EDIT: DAMNIT, I SPELLED IT WRONG. Gargh.

For all you Chick fans out there, here's my take on the story (I wrote this as having to deal with the misinterpretation of the story by someone I know):
quote:

*Sighs.*

'Aving to deal with this again, are we, Guv'nah?

Genesis 19:3-9

"3And [Lot] pressed upon [the angels] greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.

4But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:

5And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

6And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,

7And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.

8Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

9And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
"

Summation of the story:

Two angels come down to see if Sodom and Gomorrah deserved destruction. Lot finds them and invites them to his house. The men of the city find out and gather 'round, as they want to "know them (sexually)." Lot says "no, take my virgin daughters instead," but the crowd of men insist on taking the two angels. Angels get fed up and blind the men, destruction and ruin follow.

Now, let us consider the possibility that God smote the city for homosexuality. That is, all the men in the city were homosexuals. Does this make sense? All these men, from youth to the elderly, being homosexual. And they were clearly consumed only with going after their own lusts.

How in the world would the population have flourished? How in the world would every single male in the city be a homosexual? How would they have wives and children? Certainly, they could have said, "Let us take wives for ourselves that our seed would be passed on," but that is highly unlikely, and it doesn't explain how every single male in the city would have been homosexual (as homosexual men may have heterosexual children).

No, Sodom's sins were as follows:

Jude 1:7

"Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

Jeremiah 23:14

"I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness; they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah."

Ezekial 16:49-50

"49Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

50And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.
"

The only place the verses describing Sodom and Gomorrah's sins could possibly be mentioning homosexuality is in Ezekiel, and the Hebrew word toevah (translated to "abomination") appears any number of times throughout the Old Testament, referring to all sorts of unclean things and unsavory sexual acts.

Furthermore, the verse in Jude says that the men of Sodom and Gomorrah went "after strange flesh," and men are hardly of strange flesh. "Strange flesh" would be the angels themselves; the men of Sodom and Gomorrah were going to rape angels, and they knew it. That was an intolerable sin.

So, no, YHVH did not burn up Sodom and Gomorrah for homosexuality. He burned them up because they were wicked and perverse in all things and wished to rape "the sons of God."

QQ.

Thoughts, particularly those from JIA?


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Old Post Oct 20th, 2006 09:29 PM
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Eis
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Can you honestly expect anything from JIA other than the "mankind shalt not lay with mankind..." quote and then a few bible quotes on how it is prophesied that evils will distort the true meaning of the bible?


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Old Post Oct 20th, 2006 09:36 PM
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Zeal Ex Nihilo
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Eis
Can you honestly expect anything from JIA other than the "mankind shalt not lay with mankind..." quote and then a few bible quotes on how it is prophesied that evils will distort the true meaning of the bible?

I'm putting faith in my fellow man.

There is strong evidence that suggests that this is a poor course of action.


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Old Post Oct 20th, 2006 09:42 PM
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Re: Let's talk about Sodom and Gomorrha.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by FeceMan
Thoughts?


Your interpretation of the events, and the reasons for them, are how it was explained to me by various religion teachers over the years. However, given my situation, me agreeing with your interpretation would result in little more than certain people thinking "well of course he agrees!". So, I'll just sit back.


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Old Post Oct 20th, 2006 10:19 PM
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lord xyz
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I doubt JIA will even read that, or he'll most likely, copy and paste from bible.com and leave the forum thinking he's saved your soul.


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Last edited by lord xyz on Dec 31st 2009 at 11:59 PM

Old Post Oct 20th, 2006 11:13 PM
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yes


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Old Post Oct 20th, 2006 11:16 PM
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lord xyz
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Anyway, who's up for a good old game of chess?


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Last edited by lord xyz on Dec 31st 2009 at 11:59 PM

Old Post Oct 20th, 2006 11:21 PM
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Devil King
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While I would love to turn this inot a JIA bashing thread. That is not the point of the thread or the questions posed. We all, even fellow christians, realize JIA is a nut. But what about the issue of religious interpretation this thread has raised?


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Old Post Oct 21st, 2006 06:36 AM
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Storm
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I' ve always defined and labeled the crime as rape, even gang rape.

On a side note, no archaeological evidence of the actual existence of Sodom and Gomorrah has ever been recovered.


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Old Post Oct 21st, 2006 08:20 AM
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Fishy
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It's easier to believe then god just destroying a city because they happen to have a few gays in them. If he would have done that tons of city's today should have been destroyed already.


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Old Post Oct 21st, 2006 09:56 AM
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lord xyz
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Fishy
It's easier to believe then god just destroying a city because they happen to have a few gays in them. If he would have done that tons of city's today should have been destroyed already.
No, God works in mysterious ways.


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Last edited by lord xyz on Dec 31st 2009 at 11:59 PM

Old Post Oct 21st, 2006 10:49 AM
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Bardock42
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Storm
I' ve always defined and labeled the crime as rape, even gang rape.

On a side note, no archaeological evidence of the actual existence of Sodom and Gomorrah has ever been recovered.


But doesn't that jsut prove that God is a very thorough Weapon of Mass Destruction?


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Old Post Oct 21st, 2006 10:56 AM
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Fishy
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Bardock42
But doesn't that jsut prove that God is a very thorough Weapon of Mass Destruction?


Why do you think everybody wants god on their side in a war? Why soldiers are blessed and religious wars happen so often and have so much support. God being on your side is a real comfort in battle... If god would show up a few times it would be a lot worse especially if he or she destroyed entire city's because people prayed that he would or because they would sin.

But god doesn't really seem to want to involve itself to much in our world, which is logical if you ask me. If I was god I wouldn't want to do that either to boring, besides watching is more fun then doing sometimes.


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Old Post Oct 21st, 2006 10:59 AM
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Storm
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Why even suppose that God would take sides? If God took sides on behalf of someone, this necessarily means that God took sides against the other person. The idea of God intervening in human affairs trivializes God. If God would take an active role in people' s life, then God is somehow denying the right of free will to another person.


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I am not driven by people’ s praise and I am not slowed down by people’ s criticism.
You only live once. But if you live it right, once is enough.
Make poverty history.
Stop aids, keep the promise.

Old Post Oct 21st, 2006 11:39 AM
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Bardock42
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Storm
Why even suppose that God would take sides? If God took sides on behalf of someone, this necessarily means that God took sides against the other person. The idea of God intervening in human affairs trivializes God. If God would take an active role in people' s life, then God is somehow denying the right of free will to another person.


He does that anyways by being all-knowing...so that shouldn't be a problem.


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Old Post Oct 21st, 2006 11:39 AM
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lord xyz
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What is Gomorrha anyway?


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Last edited by lord xyz on Dec 31st 2009 at 11:59 PM

Old Post Oct 21st, 2006 02:46 PM
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Zeal Ex Nihilo
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A city that I spelled incorrectly.


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Old Post Oct 21st, 2006 09:33 PM
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debbiejo
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HAHA.....If Sodom and Gomorrah was soooooooooo bad, then why haven't countries today been vaporised?

Old Post Oct 21st, 2006 09:50 PM
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lord xyz
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by FeceMan
A city that I spelled incorrectly.
Oh, okay.


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Last edited by lord xyz on Dec 31st 2009 at 11:59 PM

Old Post Oct 21st, 2006 09:58 PM
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Zeal Ex Nihilo
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by debbiejo
HAHA.....If Sodom and Gomorrah was soooooooooo bad, then why haven't countries today been vaporised?

'Cause we're under grace.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by lord xyz
Oh, okay.

I would have liked the story better if it was "Sodom and Gonorrhea."


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"His signature loud high-energy approach to pitching an array of products and beard has gained [Billy] Mays a substantial amount of recognition."

Youse got good writin', Wikipedia!

Old Post Oct 21st, 2006 11:47 PM
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