The Declaration of Independence Mentions God!

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

😛

(Go, JIA, go!)

Yeah, but our creator - which we can prove and see is the Earth and the Universe...so creator don't necesseraly mean a sadistic deity.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Therefore, if our country isn't based on the belief that there is a Creator, people lack unalienable rights.

😛

(Go, JIA, go!)

What if there is no creation?

Just because a document has out of date terminology does not mean no one understands what was meant. We don’t get our freedoms from a creator, we get them from a document, or in other words, we get them from an agreement.

It's a freaking saying....it only means as much as you let it mean. All the controversy about it is stupid. When I was Christian, and even now when I'm not, it didn't mean a whole lot to me.

If you're secure in your beliefs, it shouldn't really do much to alter you life.

*Rolls eyes.*

The reference clearly is to God--or, at the very least, some "higher power"--and there's no denying it.

See, the problem is that you...did...things...

*Sighs.*

Nevermind.

the universe is a higher power.
nowhere is it implied that the 'creator' is an intelligent being...just a creator....of....stuff

I'd direct you to several threads where I've mentioned Thomas Jefferson agreeing with Jesus' perspective on human interaction, but not subscribing to his divinity. And "Creator" is much different from "Jesus, son of God, founder of christianity, et al, market cornered, everyone else is wrong, seperation of church and state is a myth cooked up by liberals".

To a deists and educated men of the 18th centruy like Jefferson at all, the creator meant nature...

...this is reinforced by

Originally posted by The Declaration of Independance
the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them

Originally posted by FeceMan
Therefore, if our country isn't based on the belief that there is a Creator, people lack unalienable rights.

😛

(Go, JIA, go!)

The creater doesn't have to be god...

To the founding fathers is was not god in the modern sense.

Originally posted by PVS
the universe is a higher power.
nowhere is it implied that the 'creator' is an intelligent being...just a creator....of....stuff

Good point.

On a side note, I'd be relatively disappointed if Feceman actually considered JIA a kindred, considering (at times at least) he's relatively pragmatic.

Relatively. He certainly actually contributes to the forum.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
On a side note, I'd be relatively disappointed if Feceman actually considered JIA a kindred, considering (at times at least) he's relatively pragmatic.

he was only joking.

"Their" creator - it is what I have said. The whole question of definite articles aside it is a personal thing and doesn't necessarily reflect that they meant "The Christian God with certain unalienable Rights..."

Sounds far more open to interpretation. Whatever force they consider higher then mere humans, be it God or Law or whatever, there are certain things that can not be taken away. Above human affairs.

Anyway, JIA will probably fail to see the joke since he argued most savagely in the other thread that that very line, because Creator has a capital "C" means that clearly they were referring to the Christian God.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
On a side note, I'd be relatively disappointed if Feceman actually considered JIA a kindred, considering (at times at least) he's relatively pragmatic.

Judging from his opening post, I think this was meant to poke fun at JIA.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
he was only joking.

Originally posted by office jesus
Judging from his opening post, I think this was meant to poke fun at JIA.

Originally posted by FeceMan
No ****ing shit. You guys get cookies. Giant chocolate chip cookies for not being stupid.

At least someone acknowledges that I'm not stupid. 😆 😆