__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Yes, but what does that have to do with something being evil (or why something is evil). Suffering is the "result" -- the extension/effect -- of evil? Suffering is also the result of bad choices and/or ignorance. It may have absolutely nothing to do with morality. Let's not get sidetracked, please. With respect to the video provided in the thread: Why is Animal Cruelty evil? To state, "suffering leads to suffering" contains zero explanatory insight/power to the issue. Understand?
And drinking also leads to siroccos of the liver, alcoholism, and the destruction of families! If you think such statements are humorous or an overstatement, join a self-help group (AA). Reality is bigger than your ego, buddy. You'd actually be amazed, ha ha!
Last edited by ushomefree on Jul 19th, 2009 at 01:39 AM
By what moral standard is it to be declared evil? I'm going to take a guess and say you're going to lead this conversation into "morality can only be justified by divinity" logic.
What is the rationality-based argument that this is evil that you have in mind?
Gender: Male Location: Southern Oregon,
Looking at you.
You are the one who does not understand. There is no difference between animal suffering and human suffering. Evil is an action, and suffering is an action. To cause the innocent to suffer is a corruption of the individual, and that action is evil. The suffering of the innocent is also evil. The first evil lead to the second evil.
That is my question! We all agree that animal cruelty is evil; but what makes such actions/behavior evil? Is the answer found in a test tube, lab and/or text book? Or can it be found within ourselves? It's very simple question, but it demands honesty.
That is a view that I believe; all man (regardless of social upbringing and/or race share). We all understand moral law, and we all apply it to ourselves. That is for damn sure. The difference is, only some apply it to others. Understand? Regardless, the sense of morality still exists. Where does it come from?!
Last edited by ushomefree on Jul 19th, 2009 at 02:05 AM
Gender: Male Location: Southern Oregon,
Looking at you.
Evil is a social judgment. This social judgment came into being through evolution. Those societies that did not have a well defined definition of evil did not function as well, and they died out. It all has to do with getting along. Getting along means survival.
Oh, that is a very simple one. Originally, no such concept existed: hunter-gatherers would have to kill animals in often brutal and painful manor just to survive. Clearly they were not worried about the suffering of the animals. But in order for the race to survive, a sense to not kill each other had to be developed. A sense that causing each other suffering was wrong.
Later, when not all of man's resources were occupied in the killing for food, reason prompted man to apply the logic that an animal ought not to be treated differently than a man. This coincides with the creation of domesticated animals, where animals became viewed as allies in the quest for survival rather than beasts that had to be killed by necessity.
It comes from the instincts necessary for the survival of the species, taken to their logical conclusion through the use of reason and empathy.
Having your head cut off would never be a good thing.
Well... maybe someone else, but never yourself.
Of course, this may be the result of an over inflated imagination or a sense of self-indulgence/pride.
I don't know... contact your local Shrink or Satanist for alternate views.
I agree with the your first premise: "societies [not having] a well defined definition of evil did not function as well," but not the latter: "they [die] out."
For the former, that is absolutely true, but let me explain something.
Morality does not evolve, and it does not change.
Anyone familiar with history knows that morality has remained the same.
Only politics, social grips, and bureaucrats change. Like the Bible says, "Their is nothing new under the sun."
If further explanation is needed, please let me know.
I'm not trying to be a prick!
I just have strong conviction in my beliefs (which is rare these days).
That, however, has nothing to do with survival, ha ha!
The point is, survival deals with reproduction and sources of food. Some of the worst crime infested cities in the US continue to grow. And let me tell you, it has nothing to to with morality! The cause: reproductive organs and a food supply. Get it?
I think you are confusing "survival instincts" with morality. Of course people don't want to be killed, it's built into every single life form on Earth to preserve it's own life and has nothing to do with morality.
There is no society that has no concept of hurting others being wrong, and there is a reason for this: they could never form a society in the first place! So while Shaky is not entirely correct in saying they "die out", this doesn't aid your point at all. Humans are physically weak and NEED to be able to interact with others to survive, so it is a BIOLOGICAL NECESSITY to have a sense of morality.
Complete nonsense. In pre-civilized cultures the mentioned animal issue DID NOT EXIST because every day was spent finding and killing animals in painful ways. If people had complete empathy for animals in the beginning, they never would have survived. There was nothing even remotely resembling PETA in pre-history.
Quote changed for improved accuracy.
Oh yeah, that totally proves it. I see your wisdom now, oh great teacher!
Apparently you haven't realized that you can't reproduce if you're dead. If you have no empathy with those around you you CANNOT find a mate and you CANNOT cooperate enough to find food. Morality is nothing but the label put on instincts collected for the purpose of allowing safe interactions with other members of the species.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
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Jul 18th, 2009 11:25 PM
