Most of the Eastern and Western religions preach that we are not to idolize the language, words or icons and documents of their religions. Yet many do including Christianity which idolizes Jesus and the Word of God, a book.
Note that God the Father of the O T is hardly mentioned in churches at all. That will not surprise those of high morals as that God is rather immoral. Jesus is a much better archetype for a God and perhaps that is why he has been allowed to usurp the top position in heaven as the judge of mankind. Only through me says Jesus.
Jesus preached to the poor and advocated that to follow him, people should give up what they own and follow him. I don’t think he actually meant that and only meant to not be greedy and to give liberally to the poor.
As I look around at what the churches and various Christian sects are doing, I see them ignoring this vow of poverty or sharing as they amass as much wealth as they can while allowing starvation to consume many millions yearly. They prefer to build huge monuments and churches to their various sects instead of hospital for the poor for instance. Yes I do recognize that they do some charitable work and I applaud this but that does not negate the greed of the churches or their construction of self-aggrandizing monuments to themselves instead of aggrandizing Jesus.
Do you think Jesus would be proud of the churches that use and abuse his name by their self-aggrandizement and disregard for what he said the church should be?
If you are in one of these wealthy churches, and you likely are, Jesus will know which cup you chose.
Is your churche serving Jesus well?
If not, why are you supporting it?
Your church can be said to be idol worshipping Jesus or the Word of God.
Do you recognize that to give an unchanging form, theology or philosophy to either Jesus or the Word of God, you are idol worshipping?
In the broader sense, do you think Christianity is what Jesus would have wanted?
Re: Re: Is Christianity what Jesus would have wanted?
Christ worship isn't idolatry, however, as per the dogma of the most holy trinity, he is both the son of and god himself, although this seems lost on many contemporary christians.
A) Christianity can only be what Jesus wanted, by definition.
B) There are many kinds of Christianity with clear conflicts, there is no way that all of them are what Jesus wanted.
Pick your philosophy of religion.
__________________
Graffiti outside Latin class.
Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
A juvenal prank.
Too many sects and individual churches are contradictory to "Bible teachings". Idolatry was a good example. According to what I have seen and heard, in comparison to how I've interpreted The Bible, Jehovah's Witnesses are probably the most accurate.
I'm sure nobody wants to hear this, especially if their home has been raided by JW, but that is just my opinion based on my own interpretation.
They don't wear crosses and don't pray to the Virgin Mary or any representation of any Saint etc. They don't have any pagan ornaments and don't believe in Christmas Trees. They don't believe in the Trinity and view Jesus as a lesser being than God. etc.
I am not religious at all btw. I'm also definitely not part of the Jehovah's Witnesses.
__________________ QUANCHI112:In between the passes Khan will tear out the orca teeth and use them as an offensive weapon. Khan has crushed a skull before so tearing a tooth off a whale should be no issue.
According to Wikipedia, on top of Catholicism and Orthodox, there's over 33,000 denominations of Protestantism. I'm sure Jeezus approves of at least one of them.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Jehovah's Witnesses have a lot of the little things right:
-Jesus did not have long hair
-The holidays (outside of Thanksgiving) are pagan
-We are to pray to God and God only (in Jesus' name)
-Crosses are pagan symbols (not to mention the instrument with which our Saviour was killed)
But after that they are completely messed up. I would go so far as to say they aren't saved and are just another cult.
They believe:
-Jesus is the archangel Michael, and not the Son of God
-Jesus did not rise from the dead, but rather a new body was created for Him
-Only 144,000 people will go to heaven
-Jesus will not return visibly on earth (no second coming)
Also:
-The Watchtower publications are ALL divinely inspired every month
-They have predicted the end of the world falsely too many times to count
...and most importantly of all, they believe:
-You are saved by works
So while yes, they reject the obviously pagan stuff (which, unfortunately most Christians embrace) they themselves go very much against the Word of God, which IS divinely inspired.
Jesus was God in the flesh, so yes, real born again, Bible-believing Christianity is exactly what Jesus wanted.
"Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head." (1 Corinthians 11:4)
"But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering." (1 Corinthians 11:15)
"Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?" (1 Corinthians 11:14)
Jesus was God in the flesh. He would not contradict the Word, because He was the Word incarnate.
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." (1 John 5:7)
Though not as overt as X-mas/Saturnalia, Helloween/Samhain or Eastre/Ostara/Ishtar/Easter, most of the other holidays glorify men rather than the Lord. Thanksgiving is the only nationally recognized holiday that puts God above all, thanking Him for what He's given to us.
Multiple times in the Bible God uses pagan/heathen people to carry out His will toward His own people, whether they be Jew (in the OT) or Christian (in the NT)
For example, God used the Babylonians to lead the Jews to repentance.
So while yes, the Native Americans were pagan, the point of Thanksgiving isn't to glorify the pagans (even though the media has tried so hard to turn Thanksgiving into 'Turkey Day', a day of unthankful, hedonistic gluttony), it's to give thanks to God for what we have.
So he used them to carry out his will... and promptly had their culture and way of life eliminated? I hope he at least spared them a place in hell.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
More ignorance. I'm not even a Jay Dub and I know more about Jay Dubs than you. I sure hope you don't preach your ignorance to people in the real world.
Let me enlighten you. The 144k will be serving God in heaven. But the Earth will be turned into a "heaven", as well, and the rest of the good folk will be there. The 144k thing was made up by Jay Dub haters to get people to despise Jay Dubs because, deep down, they know that some of the believes of the Jay Dubs make them look dumb (such as idolizing the death-torture device that the Romans used).
The worst part of it: you think you are not saved by works and yet it says you are judged by your works. So which is it? If your works are judged as good and it allows you to go into everlasting glory, then you are saved by your works. If you are judged by your works but they mean nothing (meaning, they neither condemn you nor save you), then why a judgement of your works? You can't have your cake and eat it, too.
inb4 white throne judgement vs. final judgement
Paul wrote that, not Jesus. Your evidence is invalid. Paul never even saw Jesus in the flesh.
I'll take the word of educated and dedicated historians over the word of Paul.
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Last edited by dadudemon on Apr 20th, 2013 at 03:10 PM
I realize that they believe that earth will become a "heaven". I'm not as ignorant as you think. But they don't teach that earth will be heaven. Earth will still be earth. Tell me this: What do they do with these verses?
"Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:3
"Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:10
"Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you." Matthew 5:12
"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:20
"But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:" Matthew 6:20
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21
"And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 8:11
"And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 18:3
And that's just in the Gospel of Matthew! If what JW says is true, then Jesus was a liar, because He said that if we are converted, we will enter into the kingdom of HEAVEN. That doesn't put a number on it. Anyone that is converted sincerely and believes will go to heaven when they die.
And what about these in Revelation, that explains who the 144,000 actually are?
"And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand." Revelation 7:4-8
"And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads... These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb." Revelation 14:1,4
The 144,000 are Jewish male virgins. If you aren't Jewish by birth, male and a virgin, you are not one of the 144,000.
I said that JW has the little things right, such as the holidays and the cross (as well as Jesus having short hair), but in terms of salvation they are 100% wrong.
Your works are judged after you die, whether you are saved or not. You are saved if you believe the gospel. The saved get their works judged at the Judgment Seat of Christ. The unsaved get their works judged at the Great White Throne Judgment. The unsaved works will perish, and they will be cast into the lake of fire, because they are sinners (as we all are) and did not have the blood of Christ to cover their sins. The saved will either get their works burned up (but still are saved) or will not. Either way, they are still saved, not because of works they did, but because Christ died for us. The Bible talks about this:
"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;" Titus 3:5
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
"If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." 1 Corinthians 3:15
So Paul's just the usurper then, right?
If you don't believe the words of Paul the apostle, you don't believe the Word of God, because his epistles were inspired of God (which is why they are in the Bible in the first place).
JW believe 144k will go to heaven, and the rest that are worthy will reside on a perfect Earth.
The prediction of the end of the world was a one-time thing IIRC, and it was led by one man who was obviously misguided. Hating on the whole religion is not fair for the err of one man leading ignorant people. I don't know why they did this in the first place, seeing as one of the big things they teach is that man will not know the hour of the end
Also, how do you NOT judge people by their works. That idea is written throughout The Bible
__________________ QUANCHI112:In between the passes Khan will tear out the orca teeth and use them as an offensive weapon. Khan has crushed a skull before so tearing a tooth off a whale should be no issue.
I for one am looking forward to living on a perfect Earth.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Which isn't heaven. Jesus said if we are converted and born again, we will enter the kingdom of HEAVEN. Not the kingdom of perfect earth. The kingdom of HEAVEN. They're calling Jesus Christ a liar.
And the Bible says that the 144k are saved Jewish/Hebrew male virgins. No one else.
It was the founder of the religion, Charles T. Russell, though. The Bible says: "And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it." 1 Corinthians 12:26
Basically, if the head is sick, the whole body will be sick, as well.
He falsely predicted the end of the world in:
1914
1915
1918
Then Joseph Rutherford took over the religion and predicted it in 1925.
And since then, they have falsely predicted the end in 1975 and 1989.
The Bible warns about false prophets:
"When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him." Deuteronomy 18:22
"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Isaiah 8:20
"If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul." Deuteronomy 13:1-3
"Then the Lord said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart." Jeremiah 14:14
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." Matthew 7:15
"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." 1 John 4:1
Read my previous post on this.
"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;" Titus 3:5
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
We will be judged on our works, but that is not what will save us from hellfire.
I didn't even elaborate on the fact that JW believe Jesus was/is just an angel and not God in the flesh, and that the Watchtower Society publications are ALL inspired by God every single month...
__________________ JESUS SAVES!
Last edited by Bat Dude on Apr 21st, 2013 at 12:46 AM
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