Simple question, where'd God come from if he is supposedly the source of everything?
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
This is like... the anti-theism 101 question. Why bother asking it for the 100 millionth time?
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Simple: I got the idea from watching Star's video about how to explode an atheists head. In it they put forth some kind of stupid shit like how you can't get something from nothing. So for example they would say if you think a specific particle/element/whatever is responsible for the Big Bang..they'd go "well yeah but WHERE or WHO did that particle come from?" and on and on.
So I just thought I'd flip it over. Since they apparently believe whatever shaped the universe must of come from someone, I'm curious where they feel that someone came from.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
The KCA (abbr: Kalām Cosmological Argument) goes like this:
Everything that begins to exist has a cause;
X began to exist;
therefore the X had a cause.
This applies to the universe since the universe had a beginning.
However; God, as defined in contemporary philosophy, is atemporal—he exists independently/outside of time—which means that there was no point in time when he began to exist. So the KCA doesn't apply to him.
Last edited by Astner on Jan 29th, 2016 at 03:12 AM
But that is the thing. If someone is willing to say a godlike being always existed, then why couldn't..whatever energies formed the universe of always existed? It doesn't mean I'm saying the universe always has, but perhaps the building blocks have.
So why can religious people go "oh all this had to come from somewhere, from someone" and at the same time be going "God came from nowhere, he has always been".
What am I kidding? I already know the answer people will give: because magic. I apologize, I tried to bring logic into something totally illogical. I imagine this is what a conversation with Bizarro feels like.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
Last edited by Surtur on Jan 29th, 2016 at 04:44 PM
First there was an endless primordial ocean, Nun. Then Atum-Ra created themselves as a shining egg, and Atum-Ra then mated with himself and gave birth to Shu and Tefnut, who brought forth Geb and Nut, who in turn gave birth to the rest of the gods- Osiris, Isis, Set, Nepthys, etc..
You could say that the universe always existed in some form or another, but like the Christians you'd believe in something without evidence.
Because we know that the universe—as we know it—came into being.
God on the other hand has never been thought of this way; and according to contemporary philosophy God created space-time, i.e. time didn't exist prior to him. Therefore there couldn't have been a time when God came into being.
But you see the problem is some religious people take a lack of explanation for "it's magic yo". They will say something can't come from nothing, that everything has to of had a source. But of course not God, because he's magic.
So they can harp on people about the big bang, say "der where did the energy that started it come from if you can't get something from nothing?". Which means God came from something too, but nah cuz he's magic it doesn't work that way.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
Last edited by Surtur on Jan 30th, 2016 at 05:54 PM
Asking this question is like asking "Where did Matter come from?"
There is no definite answer. Even atheists/scientists cannot answer this type of question.
"How can something be created without a creator?" The classic chicken/egg argument. But we all know the chicken made the egg. Because everything starts from something, not from nothing.
I'd like to ask a few counter-questions: Can man create life from basic organic elements? What makes a heart beat? What makes our lungs breath air?
There are some things that our mortal minds will never be able to comprehend, that science and technology will never be able to explain.
__________________
"Farewell, Damos... Ash, Pikachu... And you. All of my beloved." -- Arceus
Last edited by AsbestosFlaygon on Jan 30th, 2016 at 07:10 PM
We know where matter comes from. Sufficient densities of energy will form matter.
That's actually a pretty straightforward physics question and not a mystery. It's possible to create new matter as well. In super-colliders, when they talk about discovering new particles, they're literally *making* those particles occur by re-creating the conditions in which that type of matters forms.
Also, I will note that 'atheists' and 'scientists' are two separate groups. Not all atheists are scientists or believe in science, not all scientists are atheists.
Mm, in quantum stuff, that's not exactly true, a particle and anti-particle can form as long as they immediately self-annihilate (there's actual evidence of this, in the form of hawking's radiation). It's all incredibly small scale and rarely has an effect on anything, but that's in the universe's current conditions.
So in the pre-big bang conditions, those existing effects may be able to work on a larger scale.
In a way, it's similar to Atum-Ra creating himself as a shining egg, only possible in the endless primordial ocean of Nun....
I tend to agree, but to be fair we don't all know the chicken made the egg. Some obviously do believe God has no beginning or end.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
Last edited by Surtur on Jan 30th, 2016 at 08:46 PM
Gender: Male Location: Southern Oregon,
Looking at you.
To Astner
"Because we know that the universe—as we know it—came into being."
We don't know that the universe came into being. All we know is that ~13.7 billion years ago all of the matter, space and time where together in one point. What happened before that is unknown.
This particular question is discussed, starting at about 5:00.
EDIT: Really touching the surface of the problem, but you'll easily find this claim backed up in many, much longer debates. Even in the one from which the excerpt comes from.
Because, if you go with personal, Christian God, his decision makes the universe to appear out of nothing. Meaning, just like a person, he decides to act.
KMC Community Forums
Jan 28th, 2016 11:55 PM
