Eden and creation seemed to be going along quite well for God and man until Satan was cast into Eden by God. God would have been in charge of who he allowed into the Garden of Eden. After all, God would have kept a firm control of who entered his new day care so as to insure the wellbeing of Adam and Eve.
Being all knowing, God already knew that Satan, with God’s own power of deception, would successfully tempt Eve to eat of the tree of all possible knowledge.
It almost seems as if God wanted us to and planned for us to fail. Perhaps that is why the Church called Adams sin a happy fault and necessary sin.
Christian dogma, the opposite of Jewish dogma, has Satan as God’s nemesis and arch rival for the souls of mankind. God’s foreknowledge would have told him that Satan would cause him to condemn the vast majority of his beloved souls to hell and death and thus play into Satan’s hands. This to me seems like God creating a huge amount of grief for himself and mankind, unless God truly wanted man to fail, --- and sin was a happy fault and necessary sin as the Church says.
Did Adam and Eve actually do what God really wanted them to do, and was God creating Satan a good idea?
We are told by the Church and scriptures to emulate God.
Should all parents do as God did and create a situation of failure for their children so as to insure that they too have the happy fault and necessary sin that makes them fail?
Why was it important for God to insure that we failed?
Well if for a second we pretend these things are real..then I can't see how it could be a good idea to basically create a super villain. But then..just take a look at the person who created Satan and it kind of all makes sense why he'd create an evil being.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
Last edited by Surtur on Apr 15th, 2016 at 01:33 AM
Well first, ensure*. But it really depends on your take on morality and free will. I'm not talking about the "is this real or not?" question. But I'm guessing that most Christian interpretations have God as all-knowing, so He would have known that Satan would rebel. So it's a valid question at that point. Then the next logical step is to dive into the concept of free will. Ignoring again for a second that I think Christian free will is logically impossible, the thinking goes that we need to be able to choose good, and therefore, yes, need to have "not good" as an option.
And since there will be people who DO fail, and are presumably condemned to Hell, and just as presumably, God knew they'd fail and spend eternity in Hell, it raises some rather hairy moral quandaries. One could argue that you can't have true goodness without choosing it, but you'd also have to reconcile that with knowing at an all-knowing (all-loving??) God set up a system knowing he was sending some to eternal punishment.
There are additional nuances, but that's the gist of it as I see it. There isn't a right answer, because this is the sort of question theologians and laypeople have been struggling with literally for millennia. Either it's a perfect God who created an imperfect system, an imperfect God who created an imperfect system, or maybe the system is perfect but beyond our ability to fully grasp. The last is a convenient out for theists who like to invoke mystery to dispel cognitive dissonance, but does nothing to justify any of it.
This is a loaded question and it depends on exactly what you mean. If you mean the biblical God then I think he should adhere to it because he expects us to adhere to it. I mean if people want to say God is beyond good and evil and all that I get it, but if a being is beyond good and evil then why does it want us to be good?
I think what people can't accept is God does cruel shit just for the sake of doing cruel shit.
I do not believe in God, but I do believe if he exists he doesn't love us. Do you love microbes? Or hate them? I'm guessing you don't really give them any thought at all.
I also believe if the God specifically from the bible is real...I do not think sociopaths can love anything.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
Last edited by Surtur on Apr 18th, 2016 at 06:10 PM
well, the god from the bible is disgusting. So I doubt he gives a shit about us or any preconceived notion of morality even applies to him. Your analogy of microbes is fitting here because I don't care about microbes, and God doesn't care about me.
Not that I believe in the God of the bible as anything more than bullshit, but I think back to the episode of the Simpsons where Lisa created a civilisation in her tooth. Only when they brought her down did she feel any sense of empathy or acknowledgement. I have no connection with a deity, and I probably never will. If such a thing exists, I hope that deity has more important shit to deal with than me.
Its funny how someone can be so cock sure of something they have absolutely no way of knowing.
__________________ -------
"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of SJWs, I shall fear no liberal, for TRUMP is with me"
----
"Liberals are becoming fools. They hate Christians and White men but fall over themselves supporting Muslims......a group of people who hate everything liberals stand for. Wake up, idiots!"
-Bill Maher
But, lets assume its real. God only wants those who choose him and choose to do good. The only way to accomplish this is to give a choice. Those who are given a choice and freely choose good are the ones god wants.
__________________ -------
"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of SJWs, I shall fear no liberal, for TRUMP is with me"
----
"Liberals are becoming fools. They hate Christians and White men but fall over themselves supporting Muslims......a group of people who hate everything liberals stand for. Wake up, idiots!"
-Bill Maher
No, proclaiming an unprovable theory as absolute fact is the height of a logical fallacy.
It's not only illogical, it's a fallacy that comes directly from the source of all fallacies: hubris.
Its One of many logical fallacies atheists and theists share. The ONLY truly logical position is agnosticism with a slight lean towards creationism.
__________________ -------
"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of SJWs, I shall fear no liberal, for TRUMP is with me"
----
"Liberals are becoming fools. They hate Christians and White men but fall over themselves supporting Muslims......a group of people who hate everything liberals stand for. Wake up, idiots!"
-Bill Maher
By creationism I don't mean biblical, but simply that something doesn't appear from nothing.
Science says matter can't be destroyed or created, but it also can't have always existed due to entropy. That means all matter that exists must need have came from a place with different laws of physics. A different dimension. The "creator's/God's" dimension.
__________________ -------
"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of SJWs, I shall fear no liberal, for TRUMP is with me"
----
"Liberals are becoming fools. They hate Christians and White men but fall over themselves supporting Muslims......a group of people who hate everything liberals stand for. Wake up, idiots!"
-Bill Maher
Every religion shares one thing in common, the god/gods/supernatural beings always come from another dimension. The other dimension always, in every religion, always have different laws of physics.
I tend to believe the big bang was simply the transfer of matter from one dimension to the other. Possibly guided and at the behest of a "creator".
__________________ -------
"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of SJWs, I shall fear no liberal, for TRUMP is with me"
----
"Liberals are becoming fools. They hate Christians and White men but fall over themselves supporting Muslims......a group of people who hate everything liberals stand for. Wake up, idiots!"
-Bill Maher
Last edited by Peace Keeper on Apr 20th, 2016 at 02:40 AM
Gender: Male Location: Southern Oregon,
Looking at you.
It's not unprovable, and its not a theory. At best it's a hypotheses.
Just look at how Satan has changed over time, and how different cultures see "him". Each generation added to what Satan is.
You are simply making nonsense.
So, are you also agnostic about unicorns? If not then why? No one can prove that unicorns exist or not. Therefore, by your way of thinking, you shouldn't say that unicorn don't exist.
Where did that dimension get its matter? Are you saying God created it or just guided it to another dimension(our dimension). A single cause(God) brought matter into existence. It's the only thing that makes logical sense.
Technically, God didn't create Satan. He created Lucifer and was given free will just as Adam and Eve. Lucifer sinned and became known as Satan. God knew these things would happen, but He didn't want robots serving Him. God wants His crearion to choose to obey Him. However, God already had a fix to the problem before sin entered the universe. He chose to robe himself in flesh and die as a man on the Cross to redeem His creation. The point is that God used the introduction of sin to the universe as a means to eventually redeem it through the Blood of Christ.
I know most of you will not accept this explanation, but it answered in the Bible.
Until you start asking where that God(s) came from and what made it/them. Then you get an infinite regression and the whole thing becomes boring.
I really hope this line makes its way into future editions of the bible.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
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