Can't watch right now, but if the premise is to slam Atheist because they don't believe in something that can't be proven to begin with (and yes, nor disproved), it's rather pompous in return to do so.
He agrees that Atheists are capable of being morally good without regligion, but at the same time says they have nothing to offer for a lack of Religion. If you can be morally good without a Religious doctrine then who cares? I think most people agree that murder, theft, rape, etc. are wrong. that's why we have laws against it. What else does Atheism need to provide?
Collectivism has been around longer than any Religion I can think of so that's not dependent upon on it.
I see it like this: you're a psychopath if the only thing preventing you from doing bad things is because you think an omnipotent being specifically cares about you and your actions.
__________________ Chicken Boo, what's the matter with you? You don't act like the other chickens do. You wear a disguise to look like human guys, but you're not a man you're a Chicken Boo.
He makes a lot of claims that would take a while to unpack, but he is essentially arguing for Religion on the basis of its utility, its usefulness because status quo, that is what humans have used to "hold them together" for so long. Hold us together? Seriously? More like separate us. And is religion really useful as a moral foundation? Anyone with a secular 5th grade education could improve the 10 Commandments in 5 minutes or less and obviously the Bible got slavery and the treatment of women wrong, so it should be out the window as a moral guide at first glance. Does this guy really think that we (as in humans) in the 21st century can't come up with a better moral guide than the Bible or Koran? I mean fuck, look at Saudi Arabia. That is an effed up place with some seriously backwards morality
This guy ignores the mass atrocities committed as a direct result of religious belief like the Inquisition and burning of witches. These are direct results of superstitious religion. Not to mention the horrible atrocities that are happening on an almost daily basis as a result of Islam. And the various incompatible religions cause horrible in-group/out-group tribalism in general.
Also, he sets up a straw man by saying that atheists think that everything is an "accident." That's not true. Evolution, which is proven, is anything but an accident. And he seems to be arguing that God exists because we'll never be able to understand consciousness. How does he know? Throwing God up as an answer just stops inquiry and exploration. Whatever consciousness is it arose naturally. So far it is not irrational to say that the universe is somehow rational, but it is not rational to say that God did it.
And I'm not sure what he's trying to say about the fall of Christianity and supposedly chaos breaking out because of atheism? Or is it because Islam is spreading? He's not clear. Sounds like another straw man to me.
I don't think the arrival of religion is anymore complicated than people just trying to use myth to try to make sense of the world. And there's nothing wrong with that, but at whatever point when people started believing these myths literally as hard and fast dogma rationality started to suffer. The main problem is dogma, not necessarily mythical ways of looking at the world. Evolution has made it quite clear that we have arrived here naturally, and not through some magical creation by a God. Yes, it is remarkable that we find ourselves here. It's a fucking bizarre situation, on a big rock circling a huge ball of fire with an incomprehensibly vast universe. But God is not a reasonable answer for this situation. It just isn't. Especially not one who writes books with terrible morality.
This guy is kind of an idiot.
__________________
Last edited by Patient_Leech on Jul 20th, 2017 at 10:38 PM
If the only thing stopping you from raping, murdering and pillaging is a fear of damnation after death. Then you need to really question your beliefs and morals,, imho
edit; TBF, should also add that if the only thing stopping you from such acts above is a fear of prison, you've probably got some issues as well, but at least the fear of prison is tangible
I gotta say, for a guy making a video titled "Why Atheism is Vacuous Grandiloquence", he sure rips into theism pretty brutally in the first two and a half minutes of the video.
__________________ And from the ashes he rose, like a black cloud. The Sin of one became the Sin of many.
What I don't understand is how he thinks that Atheism will somehow make you devoid of all culture, because we all know Atheists don't celebrate holidays or enjoy past times.
It's also ridiculous to think that Religion is the only way to hold a society together. If you want collectivism,, or a sense of belonging, there are plenty of social groups you can join that aren't as restrictive as Religion. I already stated we have laws already for the mostly agreed upon crimes, so you don't need it for a moral compass. Hell, we even have things like Aesop's Fables that can take the place of the metaphorical fairytales found in the Bible. I think the world can function just fine without Religion being the cornerstone of society.
Yeah, that was the only part that really made good sense
...until, of course, he said atheists think everything came to be by accident.
For years I never wanted to call myself an atheist, partly because of the social stigma against it, but also because it just didn't seem necessary. Sam Harris makes a good point in this regard by saying we don't have a name for "non-astrologers." So it seems that in a more rational world the term "atheist" will not be needed.
Another grave error this guy makes in the video is saying that atheists are somehow arrogant. It is profoundly NOT arrogant to say we don't know things that no person could possibly know. No one knows what happens when you die. No one could possibly know that there is heaven or hell and there is no good reason to think so. Theists claim to know what God, the Creator of the universe, thinks on various topics. That is arrogance personified. The point of atheism is that we don't know everything. That's the opposite of arrogance. It's Socratic wisdom.
To be fair, he does state that there is a minority of arrogant Atheists who feel religious people are dumb. I have known a few who are this way and I don't care much for that.
Yeah, and in theory any atheist who makes no presupposition that there will be a life after this one would, more often than not, seek to enjoy and improve and celebrate this existence more than anyone.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Why Atheism is Vacuous Grandiloquence
I don't remember the exact quote from the video, but if he does indeed say it's a minority then he's lumping all atheists in with a minority in the title of his video. That's another dishonest tactic. This guy is an idiot. He's deeply defending things he himself doesn't even believe in... he reminds me of regressive non-Muslim liberals who are okay with Islam and even defend it even though it goes against everything any rational liberal should stand for like equality for women, freedom of speech, etc.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why Atheism is Vacuous Grandiloquence
Yeah he said it somewhere. He flip flops around which Kinda makes it hard to know what he's saying. I was a bit confused like you were when he talked about the void of Christianity in western Europe. I assumed he was talking about the emergence of Islam, but then how does that relate to Atheism?
Exactly. How is that an argument in favor of religion and "God" as a foundation of morality? If anything it's the opposite. A worse form of religious non-sense taking root is not an argument against atheism.
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Jul 20th, 2017 08:44 PM
