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Shin Akuma VS Gill
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AsbestosFlaygon
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Shin Akuma VS Gill

Can the Demon overcome the Messiah?

Will he be able to stop a rain of meteorites?

Does punching an island to oblivion = parting the seas and skies through sheer force of will?


Surge of Murderous Intent -VS- The Blesser of All Souls


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Old Post May 11th, 2010 03:19 AM
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No End N Site
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If this was going all out? Gill, by an unknown margin.


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Old Post May 11th, 2010 04:06 AM
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Darkstorm Zero
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I have to Disagree with the Saikyo Strider here.

See, the ocean thing never happened, its non-canon, since nobody in that ending can stand Gill's guts.

That and, Gill has very few feats that even come close to Akuma's at all.

However, for the sake of argument, I will say that it is a close match, but it will end chust like their Canon confrotation. Gill will end up SGSed, Akuma leaves Gill unconscious, and Gill resurrects a few days later.


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Old Post May 11th, 2010 05:44 AM
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No End N Site
Saikyo Pharaoh Sol Radguy

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Feel free to disagree...I don't really care. But since I'm bored...

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I have to Disagree with the Saikyo Strider here.



See, the ocean thing never happened, its non-canon, since nobody in that ending can stand Gill's guts.

That and, Gill has very few feats that even come close to Akuma's at all.


Lol, most of the people in the cast have never met Gill, so how can they not stand'im?

They wouldn't make him do somethin' like that so easily if it weren't possible. If we're gonna start snatchin' feats then Akuma's 3S endin' didn't happen and he can't destroy boats and all that blazzei.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

However, for the sake of argument, I will say that it is a close match, but it will end chust like their Canon confrotation. Gill will end up SGSed, Akuma leaves Gill unconscious, and Gill resurrects a few days later.


What confrontation? He sneak attacked Gill. And how can you just assume out of nowhere it took Gill several days to resurrect? Gill resurrects near instantly.

Daigo Ikeno (characters designer for 3S) even states Gill is the "strongest boss yet" in the SF20.


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Last edited by No End N Site on May 11th, 2010 at 06:43 AM

Old Post May 11th, 2010 06:40 AM
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Darkstorm Zero
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by No End N Site
Feel free to disagree...I don't really care. But since I'm bored...


Relax, I'm not here to pound on ya... smile

quote: (post)
Originally posted by No End N Site
Lol, most of the people in the cast have never met Gill, so how can they not stand'im?

They wouldn't make him do somethin' like that so easily if it weren't possible. If we're gonna start snatchin' feats then Akuma's 3S endin' didn't happen and he can't destroy boats and all that blazzei.


guilt by association, they know his reputation is barely better than Bison's and a good many of them have had bad dealings with him before.

Akuma's feat doesn't interfere with any of the other cast members they way Gill's does. Thats why it(along with the Uluru feat) where onfirmed canon in the first place.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by No End N Site
What confrontation? He sneak attacked Gill. And how can you just assume out of nowhere it took Gill several days to resurrect? Gill resurrects near instantly.

Daigo Ikeno (characters designer for 3S) even states Gill is the "strongest boss yet" in the SF20.


no, ne didn't sneak attack anyone... you know it's funny, people say the same thing about his confrontation with Bison, and yet it was a frontal attack... I dunno how it could be a sneak if he's right in line of sight.

Ikeno's description could be related to gameplay rather than story, it's very vague, and personally, Akuma's SF3 2nd Impact apperance was far tougher a challenge, especially the Skun Akuma fight.


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Old Post May 11th, 2010 06:52 AM
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Demonic Phoenix
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^ Gill in TS is a far tougher boss than Shin Akuma in DI.
S.Akuma doesn't have the perks that Gill does in-game. Seraphic Wing is also a lot more dangerous than the Shun Goku Satsu (when used by the CPU)


Gill doesn't have as many feats as Akuma does, but his resurrection isn't something to ignore. It doesn't take days either. Gameplay or not, he resurrects the minute he is killed/KO'ed.


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Old Post May 11th, 2010 07:21 AM
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No End N Site
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
guilt by association, they know his reputation is barely better than Bison's and a good many of them have had bad dealings with him before.


They don't know Gill. He's Celestial Emperor of the friggen Illuminati. Alex, Necro, Ibuki, Urien and possibly Yun & Yang know Gill.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Akuma's feat doesn't interfere with any of the other cast members they way Gill's does. Thats why it(along with the Uluru feat) where onfirmed canon in the first place.


It's not about the cast in the endin, it's about what he does in the endin'. The only confirmed Akuma endings are the mountain and the island.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
no, ne didn't sneak attack anyone... you know it's funny, people say the same thing about his confrontation with Bison, and yet it was a frontal attack... I dunno how it could be a sneak if he's right in line of sight..


Dude, it's a 2D fightin' game. It doesn't matter what direction he comes in (he can only come in 2), I didn't see any struggle of the slightest or any resistance. The fight is about to start and BAAM! they're on the ground.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Ikeno's description could be related to gameplay rather than story, it's very vague, and personally, Akuma's SF3 2nd Impact apperance was far tougher a challenge, especially the Skun Akuma fight.


Nah, it's not. Somethin' about how he wanted to create a character that would let players know he was the strongest boss yet. Even in SFEC they say...

quote: (post)

Gill's abilities were very powerful as befit the Final Boss of the series...Gill appeard to have transcended human limitations and possessed a style that was decidedly different from Bison's and Akuma's


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Old Post May 11th, 2010 07:28 AM
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Darkstorm Zero
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
^ Gill in TS is a far tougher boss than Shin Akuma in DI.
S.Akuma doesn't have the perks that Gill does in-game. Seraphic Wing is also a lot more dangerous than the Shun Goku Satsu (when used by the CPU)


Eh, I have to disagree there, Shin Gouki in DI was very uber, almost at his SSF2T levels in terms of computer cheapness. And I would say S.Gouki's Shun Goku Satsu was just as dangerous and nowhere near as predictable or interceptable.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Gill doesn't have as many feats as Akuma does, but his resurrection isn't something to ignore. It doesn't take days either. Gameplay or not, he resurrects the minute he is killed/KO'ed.


Gill can only resurrect once per round (Translated as once a day). he can't do it more than that, and it disables the use of other super arts once he does.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by No End N Site
They don't know Gill. He's Celestial Emperor of the friggen Illuminati. Alex, Necro, Ibuki, Urien and possibly Yun & Yang know Gill.


Ibuki (She was after the G file Gill posessed), Dudley (Gill stole Dudley's Car (Ridiculous I know)), Twelve (Gill and the Illuminati created him as a successor to Necro), and Q (Q is like a super agent)

quote: (post)
Originally posted by No End N Site
It's not about the cast in the endin, it's about what he does in the endin'. The only confirmed Akuma endings are the mountain and the island.


We have to take all the contents of an ending for the ability to work, not just some and forget other bits.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by No End N Site
Dude, it's a 2D fightin' game. It doesn't matter what direction he comes in (he can only come in 2), I didn't see any struggle of the slightest or any resistance. The fight is about to start and BAAM! they're on the ground.


That doesn't pertain to the EX version of Gouki's entry, which is supposed to simulate a POV perspective, in which it is line of sight. He didn't blindside them, so it makes not one bit of difference.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by No End N Site
Nah, it's not. Somethin' about how he wanted to create a character that would let players know he was the strongest boss yet. Even in SFEC they say...


Decidedly different style... Akuma and Bison already transcended human limiatation, and Oro possibly as well, Gouken too. A stunt like that is called Hyperbole.


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Last edited by Darkstorm Zero on May 12th, 2010 at 04:02 AM

Old Post May 12th, 2010 03:58 AM
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I_Cheat_U_LOSE
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This is an interesting match-up, I was actually thinking about making a Shin Akuma vs Gill topic a few days ago.

Basically its Messiah vs Demon

I would have to say its going to be a very even fight, and can't really give the edge to either of them. Neither of these two have significant feats (fighting games aren't very plot focused), nor do I recall either of these characters being canonically defeated. So the power and winning potential of these characters are based on their relative standing, abilities, and difficulty from their respective games.
Eh, you mind as well do 100 coin flips to determine the winner.

Capcom will have to release Capcom Fighting Evolution 2 to decide this outcome.


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Old Post May 12th, 2010 06:17 AM
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No End N Site
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Ibuki (She was after the G file Gill posessed), Dudley (Gill stole Dudley's Car (Ridiculous I know)), Twelve (Gill and the Illuminati created him as a successor to Necro), and Q (Q is like a super agent)


Twelve is under Urien's control, and it is officially stated that only the "higher ups" in the Illuminati are aware of the Tentei (Gill). I need proof on 'anything' about Q.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
We have to take all the contents of an ending for the ability to work, not just some and forget other bits.


No, we don't have to take 'all' the contents of an ending for the ability to work, we take the 'ability' its self, because we 'should' have the sense to know the creators used this event (canon or not) to demonstrate what could be done by the character, the boss, if he or she got their way. If you don't agree wit this, somethin' that should be very clear, then fine, but I aint gonna argue wit you about it cuz we're never gonna agree. I'm not gonna just start makin' up Rules of Logic to suit my needs and not apply it to other things.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
That doesn't pertain to the EX version of Gouki's entry, which is supposed to simulate a POV perspective, in which it is line of sight. He didn't blindside them, so it makes not one bit of difference.


It does not matter. He attacked'em before they could do anything. He came in and SGSed'em when their attention was clearly elsewhere. If he didn't sneak up, then it's a clear cheap shot.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Decidedly different style... Akuma and Bison already transcended human limiatation, and Oro possibly as well, Gouken too. A stunt like that is called Hyperbole.


Gill's abilities were very powerful as befit the Final Boss of the series

And the rest of that quote I posted clearly gives the impression that if he is not stronger than them, he is at the very least equal to any of them. The man can close his hand and make a meteor shower.


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Old Post May 12th, 2010 05:52 PM
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Demonic Phoenix
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Eh, I have to disagree there, Shin Gouki in DI was very uber, almost at his SSF2T levels in terms of computer cheapness. And I would say S.Gouki's Shun Goku Satsu was just as dangerous and nowhere near as predictable or interceptable.


He was cheap, but nowhere near the broken-ness of his SSF2T counterpart.
TS Gill was plain broken. Not SSF2T S.Akuma broken, but broken nonetheless.

Problem is, hitting Gill out of S.Wing leaves him with his SA bar intact, unlike hitting S.Gouki out of SGS.
To date, I've never avoided S.Wing, so I don't think it is avoidable, unlike SGS.

Also, I know I've had more trouble with TS Gill than I did with S.Gouki >__>.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Gill can only resurrect once per round (Translated as once a day). he can't do it more than that, and it disables the use of other super arts once he does.


You are using a gameplay restriction there. He was already broken. Giving him the ability to use Super arts after being resurrected would make him idiotically overpowered in the game. It'd be the same as having to win 4 rounds instead of the default 2.
If Gill's resurrection disables his other Super Arts, Shin Gouki will only have access to 3 or 4 Super arts (KKG, Shun Goku Satsu & Messatsu Gou Rasen/MG Shoryuken/MG Hadou + Tenma Gou Zankuu) per fight. erm

While I can believe the "Once a Day" bit, I don't know if there is any official statement on this limit. If you do, then by all means, enlighten me.

Granted, I still think S.Gouki has the better odds, since Gill doesn't have very many feats.


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Old Post May 13th, 2010 03:32 AM
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Darkstorm Zero
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by No End N Site
Twelve is under Urien's control, and it is officially stated that only the "higher ups" in the Illuminati are aware of the Tentei (Gill). I need proof on 'anything' about Q.


Since 12 was meant as a replacement for Necro, and (if memory serves) wasn't uriens intent to have 12 kill Gill?

And I think Q was intentionally annonymous, there is very little known about him.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by No End N Site
No, we don't have to take 'all' the contents of an ending for the ability to work, we take the 'ability' its self, because we 'should' have the sense to know the creators used this event (canon or not) to demonstrate what could be done by the character, the boss, if he or she got their way. If you don't agree wit this, somethin' that should be very clear, then fine, but I aint gonna argue wit you about it cuz we're never gonna agree. I'm not gonna just start makin' up Rules of Logic to suit my needs and not apply it to other things.


No, we never take things out of context in such a manner, otherwise everything can be used as canon in that sense, nothing gets restricted or moderated. As I have said before, that opens the doors for all kinds of non-canon filler to flood in, such as the CFJ/CFE stuff, all the MVC stuff, EX, CVS, Gem Fighter, the Puzzle Fighter crap... Everything even remotely related to Street Fighter then has a say, and it becomes an ergonomic nightmare to sort the real deal from the filler crap. Nobody wants that.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by No End N Site
It does not matter. He attacked'em before they could do anything. He came in and SGSed'em when their attention was clearly elsewhere. If he didn't sneak up, then it's a clear cheap shot.


So, from your interpretation, he blindsided them despite being in line of sight, and cheapshotted them? I'm sorry, but the only instance of a cheapshot or "From behind" instance I can think of was his intro into CVS1 where he split Bison in two.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by No End N Site
Gill's abilities were very powerful as befit the Final Boss of the series

And the rest of that quote I posted clearly gives the impression that if he is not stronger than them, he is at the very least equal to any of them. The man can close his hand and make a meteor shower.


As strong as I can buy. But by feats alone, Gouki can pretty much just about solo the cast, yet we knowthis is not the case.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
He was cheap, but nowhere near the broken-ness of his SSF2T counterpart.
TS Gill was plain broken. Not SSF2T S.Akuma broken, but broken nonetheless.


Broken being a term for computer cheapness, which DI S.Akuma had in spades unless you exploited the AI's horrid reaction to air projectiles. They always try to jump in, which made them fodder. It's what made Player controled Akuma players uber against the CPU.

All that aside, CPU S.Gouki was very VERY much faster than any version of Gill, and damage output was enormous.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Problem is, hitting Gill out of S.Wing leaves him with his SA bar intact, unlike hitting S.Gouki out of SGS.
To date, I've never avoided S.Wing, so I don't think it is avoidable, unlike SGS.

Also, I know I've had more trouble with TS Gill than I did with S.Gouki >__>.


The only difference bitween DI Gill and TS Gill was the Seraphic Wing and that palette changing aura, and the Seraphic Wing was highly anticipatable if you know what to look for. He floats to the miffle of the screen, very very dead giveaway, can't be comboed exept in stun either. The Meteor Shower was far more deadly than the SW due to it's setups.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
You are using a gameplay restriction there. He was already broken. Giving him the ability to use Super arts after being resurrected would make him idiotically overpowered in the game. It'd be the same as having to win 4 rounds instead of the default 2.
If Gill's resurrection disables his other Super Arts, Shin Gouki will only have access to 3 or 4 Super arts (KKG, Shun Goku Satsu & Messatsu Gou Rasen/MG Shoryuken/MG Hadou + Tenma Gou Zankuu) per fight. erm

While I can believe the "Once a Day" bit, I don't know if there is any official statement on this limit. If you do, then by all means, enlighten me.

Granted, I still think S.Gouki has the better odds, since Gill doesn't have very many feats.


The difference is that S.Gouki could keep charging hsi meter after any of his SA's, Gill once Resurrection was used can't do this. Plus, resurrection is interuptable.


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Old Post May 13th, 2010 07:08 AM
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No End N Site
Saikyo Pharaoh Sol Radguy

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Gill is very much harder than SFIII or Alpha S.Akuma. In fact, Gill has S.Akuma beat in every way imaginable.

-Highest strength

-Highest stamina

-Fastest attack speed

-Easy juggles, chains, and links

-Large supers

-Resurrection (even if it can be interrupted and he regenerates just sliver of health, 'still gives him a 2nd chance)

-Instant kill supers due to taunts.

-Lowest stun

-Does the highest stun damage.

-Normals do chip damage.

-Ice increases length of stun frames.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Since 12 was meant as a replacement for Necro, and (if memory serves) wasn't uriens intent to have 12 kill Gill?

And I think Q was intentionally annonymous, there is very little known about him.


Gill knows about Twelve, Twelve doesn't know about Gill and I don't remember Urien havin' Twelve out to kill Gill.

Where did you get the idea that Q is aware of Gill's existence?




quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
No, we never take things out of context in such a manner, otherwise everything can be used as canon in that sense, nothing gets restricted or moderated. As I have said before, that opens the doors for all kinds of non-canon filler to flood in, such as the CFJ/CFE stuff, all the MVC stuff, EX, CVS, Gem Fighter, the Puzzle Fighter crap... Everything even remotely related to Street Fighter then has a say, and it becomes an ergonomic nightmare to sort the real deal from the filler crap. Nobody wants that.


The problem wit what you say is...NONE of those game are canon. Those game don't exist at all in canon, period. Not a single event that occurs in those games have actually happened and they follow their own continuities.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
So, from your interpretation, he blindsided them despite being in line of sight, and cheapshotted them? I'm sorry, but the only instance of a cheapshot or "From behind" instance I can think of was his intro into CVS1 where he split Bison in two.


You can try to explain your interpretation of the events 'til your blue in the face, their is just not enough evidence there to prove that it was a fair fight, at least not for me and many others.



quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
As strong as I can buy. But by feats alone, Gouki can pretty much just about solo the cast, yet we knowthis is not the case.


This is an "In-Universe" battle. I think what the creators say, write and intend to happen overwrite feats. Despite Ryu havin' much better feats than Gouken, we know Gouken can easily beat Ryu's ass.


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Old Post May 13th, 2010 10:24 PM
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erico2002006
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I believe Messiah's are stronger then Demons...I think Gill wins this one...Akuma stands no chance...If he fights Gill in his SF3 Third Strike Form...The one where he is glowing... believe that is Gill with his full power...

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