I recently created a thread where Maul faced off against AotC Anakin. Maul won by a long shot. Then I made another thread asking who would win between Maul and AotC Obi-Wan, Maul won again. So I guess the next step is to see if Maul could beat both Obi-Wan and Anakin.
Enjoy.
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Registered: Feb 2005
Location: The Dark Side of the Force
AOTC Obi-Wan alone is a match for Maul. Throw in Anakin Maul's pretty much like a steak on a grill.
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Maul was good and all, but Anakin and Obi-Wan at this point are each too much for him. He'll last about as long as he did before, but he'll go out from being outclassed, not outthought.
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Maul is really going to get it, but I wouldn't say it'd be as easy as all that. I've said it before, but we've seen what Anakin tends to do in a duel, at least as of AotC. He rushed Dooku instead of working as a cohesive team with Obi-Wan and paid the price for it. I'll downplay Obi-Wan and Anakin for a moment.
Let's say Anakin acts exactly as he did against Dooku. Against Obi-Wan's wishes to strategically attack Maul, Anakin rushes him. Now there's two things that can happen here. Maul can either become pressed by Anakin, in which case Obi-Wan can simply circle him and cut him down, or he can knock Anakin flat onto his ass. AotC Anakin wasn't that great of a duelist, so I see the latter happening very easily. In which case, if Anakin is seriously injured or flat out killed, it comes down to Obi-Wan. I don't think the fight would go as it did in TPM -- Obi-Wan fights very differently now. I think, however, in the end, it'd be a lot of Maul trying to get past Obi-Wan's defense... and failing. And then when Maul made a mistake, just as he tended to do in TPM, Kenobi would cut him in half again.
I gave Maul a serious chance in this one and I still say Kenobi and Skywalker win, if only because of Obi-Wan at the very least.
A rushed attack against Maul is going to be far more effective then it was against Dooku. Maul can barely attack, if he is forced on the defence then Obi and Anakin have an advantage and they could take it.
dooku is a far better duelist then maul. but in this1 maul dont have a lot of chances. i mean AotC obi wan is way better then TPM, yet he won there. i give this1 to obi and anakin
Are you guys kidding or are you assuming Maul would fight without a lightsaber? Maul was a master duelist, better than Dooku and you guys think Obi-Wan could beat him? Qui-Gon was council level Jedi and an awesome duelist among Jedi, after teaching Jedi knight Obi-Wan for 13 years they are still quite formidable. Maul beat them same time with ease. At that time it took everything Obi-Wan knew just to stay alive, as Maul continued to cloud his use of the Force. Obi probably got stronger but you really can't tell from 1 to 2, and Anakin was not nearly as strong as Qui-Gon was. It doesn't matter what Anakin or Obi-Wan do, Maul could simply outlast them if he wanted. And if they fight in the hangar than he won't underestimated them either so this isn't much of a challenge for Maul.
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Please, in TPM, obi-wan takes him alone. And to those who say he got lucky, who cares how it happened. Obi-wan beat Maul in a straight up duel. Of course Obi in AOTC is even stronger, so he would probably beat him even easier. Adding anakin is pointless.
Obi wan alone > Maul
I've never understood why people think obi-wan is so weak. Who cares how he does it, the fact is, he is the only Jedi in 1000 years to beat a sith (maul) and he again beats one in episode 3 as we will see. Obi RULES. Since when is resourcefulness a weakness? Sure he doesn't appear to be as strong on paper, but that didn't stop him now did it?
Last edited by Vanquish on May 2nd, 2005 at 03:04 PM
Perhaps my analytical skills of a battle aren't up to par, but I recall seeing Obi-Wan completely throw Darth Maul off his guard and start tearing the Sith Lord up, getting right up in his face. Whether or not you want to admit it, Obi-Wan had Maul pressed and it wasn't until Maul threw Obi-Wan back with the Force that Maul gained any advantage at all (for all you Obi-haters out there, that can also be construed as a 'cheap shot').
Why wouldn't he? He did it before. This isn't a scenario in which Maul revives from the dead and swears vengeance on the Jedi that killed him and to make his apprentice suffer for it.
That being said, I don't think it'd be terribly easy, a 'slaughter' as some put it and I think there's a good chance Anakin would actually die, but eventually Maul would lose.
Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Hiding from zombies
Oh joy... Some people don't even know they have fanboy tendencies...
Alright, you kids, listen up. I want to make a few things clear:
If Obi Wan starts whuppin' ass, he's barely winning. If Maul starts whuppin' ass, he's a master duellist better than Dooku.
If Obi Wan catches his opponent offguard (like the force jump followed by bisection) it's a cheap shot. If Maul catches his opponent offguard (Like the multiple times he kicked, punched, and force pushed off ledges) he's a legendary badass worth the blood of one's first born.
If Dooku dispatches Anakin in mere seconds (twice!) and sends Obi Wan to the ground reeling, he's a lesser duellist. If Maul fights against Qui Gon Jinn for five or ten minutes (And the majority of the fight it was Qui Gon pressing Maul while Maul would take steps to keep Obi Wan off his back) and then against Obi Wan for a minute and a half, he's the best Sith duellist ever, of all time, and makes all else weak.
Ok, I will simply make my rebuttal in order of paragraphs starting now. Who was Obi-Wan ever whooping in the movies? Nobody. (not counting ep. 3 of course cuz i dont want any spoilers) Everyone he fought had the upper hand on him for most of the fight. As for Maul being a better duelist than Dooku, I'll admit that my opinion is slightly biased as I haven't read the ep. 2 book. Even still, from what we have seen (so far) in the movies, there is little indication that Dooku is a better duelist than Maul. Maul took two strong Jedi at the same time. Dooku took two Jedi separately. Sure he held off Yoda for about 20 seconds but Maul could stay alive that long as well. Maul was born and bred all his life to be a Sith Lord. Dooku had 10 years of Sith training, and was pretty old if he was Qui-Gon's master.
On the contrary, I don't think there were any cheap shots in the movies (including Obi-Wan's and Maul's), they took advantage of a situation where the other was weak.
About the times that Dooku fought and Maul fought the two (separately), they are about the same. there was no five or ten minutes when he fought them separately. Next, Maul was doing almost all of the attacking, not defending the whole time like you said. And no, I really don't think Maul was the best duelist ever, not even close.
In conclusion, Maul defeated two Jedi at the same time. Qui-Gon was a council level Jedi that was a legendary (Jedi) swordsman, sure he was a little old, but look at Dooku and Yoda. Qui-Gon is far stronger than AOTC Anakin. Next we look at Obi-Wan, still loses to bounty hunters, and shows little indication (in the movies) that he is stronger than TPM though he surely is. When he fought Maul he was in a rage which we all know greatly boosts one's power (just like Luke vs. Vader in ROTJ). Maul was very good at separating the Jedi, look at how many times he does it in TPM. So even if he couldn't beat them at the same time (which I think would be fairly easy for him) he would just separte the two and kill them both that way. Maul will not hesitate to kill them like Dooku did.
So while I admit that Dooku would probably beat Maul in a battle, it would be close and that's still overkill for Obi-Wan and Anakin. And before the inevitable "Obi beat Maul" reply, yes Obi did kill Maul and he deserved to. But Maul was still far stronger and there's no ledge for him to think his opponents were defeated.
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Revan 33, you've made some excellent points, but I'd like to pick up on a couple of things that I think have been left unsaid.
I'm unsure, but I believe Maul focused on Form VII lightsaber combat, which is extremely aggressive and relies almost entirely of martial combat and aerobic strength of body. Dooku on the other hand focuses on Form II lightsaber combat, which focuses on deftness of wrist, which actually encourages saber-locks, simply because Form II is far more subtle. In some ways, comparing Maul and Dooku can be a little like comparing apples and bananas, not only because of the difference in techniques, but also the disparity in knowledge of the Force
Maul's attacks were violent and aggressive to say the least, but I think saying that Obi was in a fit of rage when he defeated Maul may be a misomner. It's true, he was REALLY aggressive just after Maul killed Qui-Gonn and when he spilt Maul's double bladed lightsaber, but while he was hanging on the outcropping it was obvious that he had calmed himself, centred himself and overcame Maul because of his resourcefulness.
Another factor is that Maul's knowledge of the Force was inferior to that of Dooku. I'm convinced at least half of the reason Dooku toppled Anakin and Obi was due to the fact that he temporarily incapacitated Anakin with Force Lightning. Maul could not rely on such an advanced Force ability and therefore would've had to have taken both at the one time, while Dooku effectively divided and conquered.
In short I think Maul couldn't have taken Anakin and Obi together. Obi's Form III technique relies on defence, whereas Anakin's Form IV technique compensates with more aggressive and strength-based attacks.
maul would almost certainly be at a disadvantage because he would've had to have taken both at the same time, whereas Dooku, ever the older and more experience Force practitioner, effectively managed to separate the two and carve them up one at a time
May 1st, 2005 08:59 PM
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