IF Im deuling an expert makashi practicioner and we have all the same parameters(speed, hieght, agility, intellegence, force mastery etc..) whats the best style to counter his makashi? o and im light and my opponent is dark if that helps.
Last edited by Man of Christ on Dec 20th, 2007 at 04:23 AM
Any form can beat Makashi, it depends on the users.
Anakin overpowered Dooku because he was in much better physical condition, and even a Force-augmented Dooku couldnt keep up.
Yoda used Ataru, which when coupled with his small size and ridiculously fast movement made Makashi's precise strikes nearly useless against such an opponent.
If both of these forms can defeat it, from an analytical standpoint, any form can. Maybe Shii-Cho and Niman are perhaps the only forms with inadequate specialty to counter in properly.
I'd guess that if a Soresu user could have a tight enough defense against the pinpoint accuracy of a Makashi user, they could win also.
As a rule of thumb, in general, Makashi is the ultimate form of lightsaber combat. Assuming that two combatants are of equal strength, speed, experience, and Force mastery and yet one practices Makashi, canon forces us to assume that the one using Makashi will win.
However, Se7in is also correct. Skywalker and Yoda have both defeated a Makashi duelist (the Makashi duelist) utilizing inferior forms. But such victories can be credited to superior Force prowess, speed, or strength, and in no way does it mean that their forms are better.
Sometimes it depends on the user rather than the technique.
Great point Gideon. I'm not saying Makashi is even to the rest of the forms in lightsaber combat. It's literally called the epitome of saber-to-saber combat and perfected in an age where lightsaber duels were abundant and the main form of combat.
But I wanted to stress that circumstances in both the environment and combatants make a much larger difference on how effective a form is, especially one with specifications and accuracy like Makashi entails.
Let's say you have two Yodas for instance, except one of them is a Master of Makashi rather than Ataru. Have them fight, and the Ataru using Yoda will more than likely win, given how the kinetic energy of the form answers for his weaknesses (small size and lack of reach) and fully utilises the full potential of the awesome speed at his command.
Same goes for someone like Mace Windu, who's Vaapad answers for his inner darkness. A Vaapad wielding Mace Windu would more often than not defeat a Makashi wielding Mace Windu.
A combatant blessed with shoddy footwork would be better suited for Shien, given how it's not too demanding on the attribute.
i think the only form truly incapable of defeating makashi is form zero. But seriously, i think that makashi is just not that great. It has such a strong strenth in the prcision and quality of the moves, but comes at such a high cost, as when these moves are blocked, a makshi user may find it difficult to rectify the true potential of their mastered form in the fight. So, if a jedi used form zero, and did not draw their lightsaber ntil absolutely critical, in fact could be a perfect way to counter a makashi master. I guess its hit and miss really.
It comes down to the user and also how well he/she knows the opponent`s style. In episode 2 Obi and Ani are ineffective against Dooku in part because they were not trained to counter his "archaic" style. Yoda on the other hand knows to exploit the weakness against strong blows.
Mashaki is very saber vs saber oriented so in a sense time spent studying it could be better for learning how to duel. On the other hand I imagine it is one of the harder styles to master. Once you reach a very high level of proficiency things even out.
No I think it was because Anakin ran towards him like a moron leaving Obi-wan behind him. Individually neither of them was powerful enough or skilled enough yet to take on the likes of Dooku. And Obi-wan knew it! "I can't take Dooku alone!"
Right so the best form against it would be a very unorthodox and unpredictable form, and not even fight with a normal sword.
So say Maul's version of Juyo and fighting with a Saber staff would most likely be very effective against a Pure Makashi user.
Why do people argue styles? It's about the individual.
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True. But the opponents were hardly equal. It was the best set-up possible for Djem So demonstrations. Old guy whose body is feeling the years and whose muscle tone is less than ideal but with a mastering of makashi that is ingrained in the muscles themselves vs a young powerful and experienced warrior in the prime of his life whose physique is rather buff.
Strong youngman vs old guy. Pretty much the perfect set-up.
Style against style? Makashi and Djem So are equal in usefulnes.
Juyo is the best style period as long as you dont leave yourself vulnerable to mental attacks and such.
"The Daemon lied with every breath. It could not help itself but to deceive and dismay, to riddle and ruin. The more we conversed, the closer I drew to one singularly ineluctable fact: I would gain no wisdom here."
I said "in part". They would still be overpowered and outskilled if they knew the other style. However the novelization clearly describes Dooku`s style as largely forgotten and Obi/Ani not being able to adapt to it without spending too much energy.
The saber staff might be very good here since the longer grip gives leverage and potentially stronger blows (which Makashi is said to be weak against). Lightsabers don`t weigh much after all.
On the other hand, if saber staffs were more widely used back when Makashi was created the style might include defense against them. I have no idea if they were, Exar Kun made the first one didn`t he?
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Last edited by Mshinu on Oct 20th, 2010 at 09:37 AM
Dec 20th, 2007 04:10 AM
