And hw as toying with Luke in ROTJ too....
He's always toying with people.
Amazing how toying looks exactly like he's getting beaten and thank the heavens Vader has that armor or he'd be dead right now thanks to ESB Luke.
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If you read any EU novels which is pretty clear you don't that luke stated at ANY given point of time during the duels in TESB or ROTJ, vader could have easily killed him had he wanted to. You seem to forget that vaders intention in BOTH movies was to turn luke, NOT kill him.
Now, if vader were under the orders of palpatine to TURN luke, NOT kill him.
And as for TESB i think it is pretty clear that vader wasn't trying to kill luke or immobalise him until he let his guard down when luke wacked his shoulder.
Oh and please DO quantify and substantiate that he "always toys with people" seeing that when he gets serious he can easily kill most of his opponents such as that duel in the purge where he quickly tools 4 out of 7 jedi knights before getting backstabbed and nearly killed.
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Apparantly it IS true so accept it pal and move on with life. By your logic i should discredit anything any SW character says if nothing out of universe states it.
Don't be pathetic.
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Oh but the thing is it IS GOOD ENOUGH seeing vaders incredible force mastery and combat prowess which he had NOT demonstrated during both movies, so yes lukes statement is sure as hell good enough.
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im not saying that you discredit it just tht A CHARACTER'S WORDS ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH, couple his words with some CONCRETE EVIDENCE, then we'll talk. BUT A CHARACTER'S OPINION ALONE IS NOT PROOF.
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Then how about other novels comics and the movie itself you prick which clearly depicted vader as being an extremely powerful individual whom at any given point of time could annihilate luke in those 2 duels had he chose to use the force along with the fact that luke stated vader could have killed him easily?
Now would you kindly shut the hell up before i f*ck your backside? There IS enough evidence to prove lukes point, The ONLY problem is that you are too incompetent to do your damn research or look up at more EU material which depicts vaders incredible combat prowess.
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I do think Luke's opinion on Vader is a 100% right. He has fought him to my knowledge 3 times so I would say he can judge his powers accurately. He also recognizes the fact that Vader wanted to him to turn to the darkside during the duels so he would know Vader wanted him alive. Furthermore Luke probably know where his skills rank at the time(courtship of princess Leia), plus the person he is fighting in the novel where he made the comments almost killed him and I know that person was weaker than Vader. So I can't see why Vader would not be able to kill Luke had he wanted to. So Luke's assessment is accurate.
Because Vader didn't want to kill Luke otherwise there was a good chance that he would never be able to succeed Sidious as the DLOTS without Luke's aid, and when they both were holding back Vader was still winning the ROTJ duel. And once again Luke fought Vader atleast 3 times so he should have a good reading on Vader's power in relation to his own. Luke was in the process of being killed an opponent lesser that Vader so that also supports Luke opinion. Where is the proof that states otherwise? Oh wait there is none!
The proof has been given to you in the battles that Luke could only beat Vader by using the darkside. Luke admits Vader could have killed him when Luke was fighting a force witch I believe.
Last edited by Elite Hunter on Apr 3rd, 2008 at 10:07 PM
After Luke got the one kick to Vader,Vader was the one causing Luke to retreat until(no matter what the circumstances were, Vader was dictating duel)the end where Luke gave into the darkside.
EDIT:Another thing I would like to point about your Yoda comment is that Yoda has never actually fought Sidious before while Luke fought Vader at least 3 times and lived so it is no surprise that Luke can compare his skills to Vader's.
Last edited by Elite Hunter on Apr 3rd, 2008 at 10:17 PM
Ivalice, tone down the vulgarity. You're on thin ice as it is, no pun intended. There is no need for that kind of talk, no matter where the debate is going.
As for Luke's word being unreliable... I don't think so. I would count on Luke's word to be pretty accurate. He's no swordmaster by Return of the Jedi, but he certainly has had dueling experience against Lord Vader to be able to compare himself, as Elite Hunter has stated. If Luke feels that Vader could have destroyed him easily, then he probably could have.
Not to mention that, indeed, Vader was not trying to obliterate Luke in their duels during Empire and Return of the Jedi.
Apr 2nd, 2008 10:36 AM
