well, i for one don't think its a ridiculous thread. LOTF Luke is on a whole new playing field above NJO luke. I guess it depends on where you place Exar Kun.... Luke could beat Kun one handed by himself. So how close do you put DE sidious to LOTF luke? I would say not nearly as close as sidious was to NJO Luke.
The fact of the matter is that, save for rare moments, Luke Skywalker's post-Dark Empire accolades aren't that impressive, and by that I mean, not enough to automatically give him the position of numero uno Force user in the mythos. He only demonstrates remarkable power at the apex of The Unifying Force, where he overpowers Shimrra's cadre of bodyguards and then defeats the Supreme Overlord in single combat. His feats during the Dark Nest crisis and on are truly spectacular, however, such as rooting himself so deep in the Force that not even "the black hole at the center of the galaxy" could move him and overcoming the likes of Raynar Thul and Lomi Plo in combat despite that Raynar's power was being boosted by the hivemind of the Colony. His depiction in Invincible is also impressive.
Basically, it is my belief that the contention that NJO Luke Skywalker is somehow a level or two above DE Sidious is absolutely unfounded. Based on feats alone, he's -- at best -- on par with the Emperor only.
Well might be as a combatant, but when it comes to sheer destructiveness with the force, personally i would hand it to sidious because none of luke skywalkers attacks(to my knowledge at least) are as destructive as the emperors(The force storm etc).
__________________ Thanks to valerian for this awesome sig.
what would be luke's single most powerful use of the force ever? Would it be his vision's that he sent caedus? Would it be cloaking the planet? or the statement from the raynar thul fight? any other ideas?
At best? Of course, we can't say anything definitive either way, but to suggest that the best case scenario for Luke would have them be on par is a tiny bit silly. Luke, years before even the start of the Yuuzhan Vong War, had been capable of shielding an entire planet for a prolonged duration of time. He then proceeds to literally skyrocket in power during the NJO series, and I say this because right at the start, he struggles with manipulating a single Black Hole (which in itself is a level of power Sidious has never displayed, much like the first feat I mentioned) and gets knocked unconscious at the end of the ordeal, and yet later on in the series is able to manipulate about thee of them at once with ease. Based on existing evidence, a late NJO Luke Skywalker is a good notch or five above Sidious.
A point I want to make before this becomes a multi-page debate, Nebaris, is that I'm currently on an eleven day vacation in New Jersey (and then to Ocean City, Maryland); my responses won't be anything approaching regular.
No, it isn't, but I'll humor you.
Which is impressive, but since Darth Sidious was already established as the most powerful Sith Lord in galactic history equipped with the broadest range of knowledge in the mythos, can you prove that he would have been unable to do the same? Consider that, despite the fact that the Emperor was secluded on Coruscant for much of his reign, he managed to turn Byss into "one of the most powerful dark side sites" in the galaxy due to infrequent trips. While that's not an illusion, it is a planet-wide manipulation.
Again, given the Emperor's far more impressive knowledge base and accolades, can you prove that he lacked the power to do so?
Much like his later feats in Dark Nest with the summoning of illusions. He has an incredibly high learning rate.
Actually, you haven't proven that at all. Post Dark Empire, Luke Skywalker nearly died overcoming a single droideka (with Mara Jade Skywalker's help) -- on the eve of the Yuuzhan Vong invasion. Likewise, Skywalker has never demonstrated the destructive power of the Force Storm -- capable of annihilating fleets of ships that can resist gigatons of energy, transmigrating individuals -- or so forth. That's power well beyond his own, is he incapable of performing it? Likewise, he hasn't even demonstrated the power to resist it without aid. Skywalker's feats as a combatant are certainly as impressive as Palpatine's and I would have no problem conceding he's the more skilled combatant, but he has yet to approach the Emperor's vastly more damaging techniques.
Registered: Jul 2006
Location: University of Texas-Austin(Aka libe
I disagree with your points Escape. While it's obvious Palpatine's knowledge of the force is broader and basically pwns Luke's knowledge, you can't ask us to prove that Palpatine isn't incapable of doing feat X or Y. Palpatine's superiority in force knowledge in no way equates to him knowing every technique Luke knows. Does he know the fallanassi technique? Does he know the flow walk? Nothing suggests it so it would be in your best interest to come up with some kind of argument for him knowing these techniques, or drop the assertion altogether.
You missed the point, totally, Darth Sexy. I never asserted that Palpatine was privy to everything Luke knows, but Darth Sidious's knowledge is greather in depth and scope by far to Skywalker's own -- there is no comparison to be made. Moreover, he has mastered all of that knowledge. But back to the point, Nebaris began by asserting that Palpatine has never demonstrated the ability to shield a planet in an illusion or manipulate a black hole -- the implication being that he wasn't capable of doing either. Now, I can't prove that Palpatine can do that nor can Nebaris disprove it (he can't prove a negative and I understand that). Likewise, Palpatine demonstrated a greater effect on the Force than Skywalker has (his blunting of the Jedi's ability to perceive with the Force, which can be argued to be a galaxy-wide illusion on the most powerful institution of Force users in that galaxy), has transformed a regular planet into "one of the most powerful dark side sites in the galaxy" (think of places like Korriban and Ziost, Sith strongholds for centuries, but Byss ranks among it due only to Palpatine's influence), and has demonstrated the ability to destroy a fleet of Star Destroyers with shields capable of resisting ludacris amounts of damage.
Is Skywalker capable of that? He hasn't demonstrated the power to do so.
Jul 12th, 2008 08:43 PM
