Re: Re: Re: Exar Kun, Darth Bane, Darth Revan vs. ROTS Yoda, Mace and Anakin
Where's the laughable ease? Bane and Kun are incredibly proficient with a blade and even though Revan is an unknown, he was #1 in his time. At any rate, what exactly would make it easy for the jedi?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Exar Kun, Darth Bane, Darth Revan vs. ROTS Yoda, Mace and Anakin
Because every one of the Jedi is greater than any of the three Sith. Anakin > Kun. Anakin > Bane. Anakin > Revan. Yoda > Kun. Yoda > Bane. Yoda > Revan. Mace > Bane. Mace > Kun. Mace > Revan.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Exar Kun, Darth Bane, Darth Revan vs. ROTS Yoda, Mace and Anakin
When has it EVER been established that Anakin is superior to all 3 in saber combat? Mace and Yoda are likely to be superior but Anakin? Passing something off as fact doesn't make it so.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Exar Kun, Darth Bane, Darth Revan vs. ROTS Yoda, Mace and Anakin
Oh, I can tell that this is going to be entertaining.
It was established when General Anakin Skywalker engaged Count Dooku of Serenno aboard the Invisible Hand during the Second Battle of Coruscant in the Clone Wars. Skywalker battled Dooku -- "one of the most respected and powerful Jedi in the Order's twenty-five-thousand year history" and "an even greater Lord of the Sith" (also considered to have been the greatest of the Lost Twenty and the Temple's "most learned student" by Master Yoda; a contention that was never disputed) -- and when he decided to slay the Count, according to the omniscient narrator: "Dooku was already dead. The rest was mere detail." He turned Dooku's wealth, connections, influence, prodigious lightsaber skills and mastery of the Force into "a joke". Windu and Yoda both displayed the ability to defeat the Count, but not to such a deep extent.
If Anakin could turn into such an unstoppable force as to annihilate someone of Dooku's stature, and Advent already handled why Anakin > Kun in lightsaber ability years ago, what on Earth makes you think that Bane or Revan have a chance?
Oh, and for the record, there is no likely. Based on all evidence, Yoda and Windu outclass Bane, Revan, and Kun in swordsmanship.
Edit: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Sorry, forgot the orbalisks. Bane might do major damage after all.
Last edited by Gideon on Aug 3rd, 2008 at 03:58 PM
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Its not like anakin can't break banes orbalisks if he manages to hit him with tremendous force or anakin could simply disable banes saber which would make things far easier for him.
Bane himself couldn't even break the shell of a single, unattached orbalisk with his lightsaber. Bane >> Anakin, as far as physical strength is concerned. Bane fell at least a kilometer with six people and three (thirty-foot long) drexls on top of him. The orbalisks didn't break. In fact, they just healed the wounds he'd suffered, including a broken arm, in seconds. This, ten years before RoT. Three Jedi striking almost simultaneously couldn't so much as scratch his armor, and the only time one of them managed to cut him he flung them away with the Force and, again, healed the wound instantly. It took his own Force lightning - which a decade prior was capable of vaporizing three individuals and turning their drexl into a charred heap - to kill some of them, when they managed to shake off five force-pikes, each of which was strong enough to put down a bantha.
So no, Anakin cannot in any way break or notably damage the orbalisks, although at least one of the trio could certainly get around them.
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: On cloud 9 in 7th heaven! I didn't
I still fail to see who the force bout would be such a curbstomp if Yoda is equal with the most powerful Sith in history, Mace was second to Yoda, and Anakin was called "the most powerful Knight ever known to the Jedi Order." How is it such a decisive victory?
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: On cloud 9 in 7th heaven! I didn't
Well then how literally should we take that statement about Anakin? I know how literal the Anakin haters will take it, but Jedi Masters are still Jedi Knights. And for him to be called "once the most powerful" would seem to indicate that he would be somewhat formidable against the Sith here, although he might not yet have the control over it yet.
Nobody is debating his force connection, raw abilities, or saber prowess. However, he would not be able to contend with ANY of the other fighters in the force, and as Faunus pointed out, it is very unlikely he would be able to smash through Bane's orbalisks.
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: On cloud 9 in 7th heaven! I didn't
Ah, my misunderstanding then. But Bane does have open spaces, right? So even if Anakin, for some reason, couldn't exploit one of those spaces, then surely Mace could via shatterpoint, correct? And if the other two Sith are killed leaving only Bane to face the three best Jedi, they'd be able to overcome him. This is, of course, assuming that they don't get pwned with the force right out the gate.
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Alright, i'll concede that. But i don't see why anakin wouldn't try to disarm him by cutting his lightsaber if he cannot break his orbalisks as you just proved.
Registered: May 2005
Location: .::The Anti-Fanboy Confederation::.
And now, Ladies and Gentleman, KMC SW VS Forum presents another Episode of "Revenge of the Fanboys".
And that it was. You can now go and watch our featured film "Bullshit with Gideon" in the next Anakin or Sidious related topic. Thanks.
Really Gideon. Why do you always keep forgetting the minor details?
a) Dooku completely pwned Anakin and Obi-Wan to the point where he simply took Obi-Wan out of the fight while delivering a backkick at Anakin. Did you somehow miss that fact
b) Nice that you're once again using the RotS Novel as a source which describes a completely different fight. Does Dooku look hard pressed in the movie? Nope. Is the duo coming close to defeating him at any given time of the fight? Nope! Unfortunately for you, the movie still represents the higher level of canon.
c) If you want to stick to the novels interpretation than do it correctly. Following the novels interpretation, Dooku was not allowed to harm Anakin in any way and was adviced to try and push him over to the Dark Side. Notice: That are two clear disadvantages for Dooku as 1) He wasn't allowed to do all he could and 2) tapping into the Dark Side can bring you quite close to your full potential, as seen, for example, when Luke goes mad in RotJ and overcomes the (without a doubt) more skilled Vader.
So Gideon. You can decide now: Either Dooku is still superior to Anakin in terms of lightsaber skills (because he pwned him while Kenobi and Skywalker where double-teaming him) or he lost because he wasn't allowed to go all out and even had to make his opponent stronger by taunting him into using the Dark Side. Or, to give you another way out: You can simply realize that comparing Anakin to Dooku based on that duel in the fashion you always attempt to do it is a grade A, money back guaranteed, steeming and stinking bucket of Canadian horse piss. So. Keep in mind: This is debating and not "Gideon picks everything that supports his opinion and leaves the rest out".
And there we have it again. Yes. Anakin can turn into an unstoppable force to annihilate somebody who isn't allowed to hurt him, if being properly taunted before that. Or he can simply be outsmarted by an inferior force user and duellist, as happened, when he faced his old master Kenobi. Since the opponents here consist of a tactical mastermind (Revan), a guy that is pretty much invunerable by a lightsaber (Bane) and a dude that wields are completely unique weapon with a unique lightsaber style (Kun), I'd love to see your arguments how Anakin would overcome any of them with "laughable ease".
Oh. And what "evidence" would that be, Gideon? Based on the "evidence" we have, Revan and Kun remained undefeated in lightsaber combat throughout their entire career and dominated their respective eras pretty much (at least in their prime). And Bane is still covered with that nice orbalisk armor.
So. I'm waiting for you to come back here and present us evidence how any of the three Sith will be defeated in lightsaber combat with "laughable ease". Or you can take that laughable statement together with your laughable attempts to analyze the source material the resulting laughable opinions, put them on a boat and send them on a nice trip back to Lala-Land. The result might look like that:
(please log in to view the image)
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"Dear God, what is it like in your funny little brains?"
He could try, sure, assuming he had an iota of sense and could actually deduce that he can't simply plow through his enemy.
Besides, Bane's not some worthless little punk. His working knowledge of the lightsaber forms at least equals that of Anakin, since he'd memorized every single traditional stroke and sequence of each, and had himself mastered Form V while being proficient enough in Soresu to teach it to Zannah. His build is just ridiculous - a "mountain of muscle" with, what, eight or nine inches on Anakin? Add in the orbalisks and you have someone just as skilled (if not more), considerably larger and stronger, and nearly completely invulnerable to any real offensive Skywalker could mount. Anakin has three places he can strike with any effect, and he'll have to do so under the physical onslaught Bane unleashes. Hell, even if he manages to wound Bane - wound as in cut through most of his wrist like Johun did - he'd have to capitalize on it immediately or the Sith would just heal off the damage.
And even if he did destroy Bane's saber - what then? Bane is easily capable of blocking Anakin strikes with any part of his body other than his head, and seeing as how Obi-Wan managed to put Anakin on his ass with a simple kick I don't think it would be much of a stretch to say Bane might be able to disarm him in return and proceed to rip him apart, limb-by-limb.
Last edited by Eminence on Aug 4th, 2008 at 03:23 AM
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From what i'v seen in jedi vs sith. Bane's muscularity is far from ridiculous as his build does not even come close to those of roid monkeys like ronnie coleman and jay cutler.
But yes, his build is still pretty muscular but not too overly ridiculous.
It's nice to know that you come back here to tell us what Dooku was and WASNT allowed to do. However, from Darth Sidious' own admission, if Dooku had been more powerful in the dark side than Anakin, he would have killed Anakin. Please show us where Darth Sidious tells Dooku NOT to hurt Anakin. I do recall Sidious telling Dooku that if Anakin miraculously gets the advantage, Sidious will stop the fight. He didn't, and Dooku was fighting for his life.
Registered: May 2005
Location: .::The Anti-Fanboy Confederation::.
Oh. You do recall something? Instead of recalling something, you should fetch yourself a copy of the RotS novel and read it. This would enable you to participate in debates with actual knowledge about the things being discussed. And since I know that this will be a totally new experience for you, I'll simply share the following paragraphs from the RotS novel with you:
Count Dooku watched with clinical distaste as the blue-scanned images of Kenobi and Skywalker engaged in a preposterous farce-chase, pursued by destroyer droids into and out of turbolift pods that shot upward and downward and even sideways.
"It will be," he said slowly, meditatively, as though he spoke only to
himself, "an embarrassment to be captured by him." The voice that answered him was so familiar that sometimes his very thoughts spoke in it, instead of in his own. "An embarrassment you can
survive, Lord Tyranus. After all, he is the greatest Jedi alive, is he not? And have we not ensured that all the galaxy shares this opinion?"
"Quite so, my Master. Quite so." Again, Dooku sighed. Today he felt
every hour of his eighty-three years. "It is ... fatiguing, to play the
villain for so long, Master. I find myself looking forward to an honorable captivity." (RotS novelization)
Oh? What's that? Apparently, Dooku thought that Sidious planned to have him captured by Anakin. I think it would look pretty stupid if Dooku killed or defeated the guy who should capture him later, eh? Given that plan above, it's pretty clear that Dooku was under the impression that he should lose to Skywalker somehow after taking Kenobi out. Which is exactly what happened.
The other idea makes no sense at all: Dooku was a rather gifted student, noted as "the greatest" Jedi trained in the Temple by Yoda personally. You really think that Sidious would sacrifice an apprentice with Anakins potential, that had yet to be unleashed, just because the young Jedi, not having reached his full potential, might have lost a duel with one of the greatest Jedi there ever was who had become "even more powerful as a Sith"? Normally, Sidious is not known for casting pearls before swine. And still you assume that he was about to do that in this particular situation? When already knowing that Anakin was about to become more powerful than himself or Yoda (which he states in their duel), something that Dooku would never have managed to do? Sounds pretty stupid.
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"Dear God, what is it like in your funny little brains?"
Aug 3rd, 2008 03:50 AM
