This is pre-suit ROTS Darth Vader vs. ROTS Darth Sidious. Now, before you insult me and go, "DIS IZ SPITE D00D UR DUM," I'd like to point out that there's a Dooku vs. Sidious in which over 30 people sided with Dooku being victorious.
Registered: Jul 2008
Location: When you find out, its too late.
I think Pre-suit Vader was stated as being 80% of Sidious, so logically my vote goes to Sidious. So many people siding with Dooku in the other thread makes no sense to me either. :/
ROTS Anakin was not as powerful as ROTS Sidious, that's all there is to it. Give someone who has such control over the Dark as Palpatine, hand him Malachor's power and...
Vader's not got the Force-power here, but saber skills I think he's got over Sidious.
__________________ Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos.
ROTS Vader had not yet reached his potential yet. He still had a long way to go. Yoda said Kenobi was not strong enough to fight Sidious. So Sidious would win, because he had a far more control and more mastery over the force.
Don't be surprised if you do get insults, because some people seem to get a little too serious over these debates. I however think it is very immature to insult others over a debate.
Thanks for bringing into this thread something that didn't need to be. And you wonder why we fling insults.
And while there's nothing wrong with the results you just ascertained, there's that A>B>C argument again. In Star Wars, there can be extenuating circumstances. It's like saying Mace defeated Palpatine, so Mace can defeat Yoda becuase Palpatine defeated Yoda. That doesn't take in Vaapad, Shatterpoint, the environment etc.
And before you take this as an insult, contemplate the option that it's constructive criticism. In fact, contemplate all possible, feasible options in a Vs. fight.
__________________ Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos.
Dooku was fast enough and skilled enough to compete in a duel with Yoda, more than once. Yoda is as fast as Sidious and were basically even in their duel. Good Anakin destroyed Dooku by not only being stronger than Dooku but faster. As George Lucas apparently stated, the Dark Side is stronger than the Light Side (source: Gideon). Therefore, pre-suit Vader is stronger than 'in the zone' Anakin. Strong enough to tool the highly touted Jedi Battlemaster Cin Drallig one-handed while using his other hand to kill Cin's best pupil.
Thus, Vader takes Sidious in sabers. By a fair margin.
Windu actually really did not beat Sidious. Sidious faked weakness as stated by George Lucas in the commentary. Besides Sidious, Windu, and Yoda are all very close. Kenobi would never be close to Sidious's level, or Yoda would not of told him that he would never be strong enough to fight Sidious. Windu vs Yoda would make a great arguement because they are both very close. Kenobi vs Sidious would not be a good arguement.
I go by what is said and done in the movies, or other canon sources. If that is A>B>C logic well than that is the only thing we can go by. We can not just go by assumptions.
I not saying Windu didn't beat Sidious in dueling, but there are good arguements that say he didn't, and there are good arguements that say he did. I don't think Windu could have killed him even without Anakin. Maybe Windu is the better duelist.
Can you name the source? Again im not arguing that Windu did not win the saber duel. But just because you win a saber duel does not mean you win the entire fight. It is clear that Mace was struggling against the lightning, and would have eventually been overpowered by it had Sidious not stopped the attack. So i say where Sidious could not beat him with a saber, he could have beat him with the force, even without Anakin's help
Considering Sideous was melting his own face and begging for mercy and eventually cut off his own stream of lightning, I see no reason to not assume that Mace's Vapaad super-conductive loop didn't just pwn Sidoeus. As for the source, I'm sure Gideon probably has it.
Sep 10th, 2008 03:04 AM
