Setting: Same place that they dueled Dooku in AOTC
Rules: None
1. Sabers
2. Force
3. All out
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Duo after a duel lasting a millenia.
Duo
I'd go for the duo here.
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Leave the scene lookin' like Vietnam
Might as well call him "Matt Atom Bomb"
Like his name suggests, he's quite atomic
And this fool - he likes DC Comics
Two energy swords make up his symbol
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Episode 3 Obi-Wan wins here. He owned DS Anakin who was MUCH stronger then Count Dooku, who defeated the duo here. And he killed Grievous, who would have also beaten Episode 2 Obi-Wan and Anakin.
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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: On cloud 9 in 7th heaven! I didn't
Sadly, no. He didn't "own" Anakin at all. He was being pushed back and back and got lucky that Anakin chose to do a stupid jump dues to not thinking clearly.
And as I recall, he didn't kill GG with a saber, but with a blaster. Yes he disarmed him... twice, but that's not how he met his end.
AOTC OB1 is only 3 years behind his ROTS so he's rather proficient in the same form. Adding in Anakin, who did much better against Dooku than OB1 in AoTC, is just going to be too much for RoTS OB1.
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: On cloud 9 in 7th heaven! I didn't
Ok, when Anakin wasn't in his normal mind state, which was the cause of his loss. Had he been, as people refer to as, in the zone, he would have mauled OB1 and it would have been game over. Plus... with the story written in reverse, they didn't have much choice other than to do it that way.
Did I read it? Why, it said, "OB1 proceeds to PWN DS Anakin!" No, I don't think so.
I think we came to a conclusion that there are 4 kinds of RotS Anakin:
1.) Light Side Jedi Anakin--the weakest one.
2.) Moody, kinda pissed Anakin--the one that gave Dooku a run up until he (Dooku) employed Dun Moch.
3.) "Teh Z0ne" Anakin--the most focused and, frankly, dangerous Anakin.
4.) Dark Side Anakin--the most powerful of Anakins, but his lack of focus is something to be capitalized upon, which is what Kenobi did, according to the novel.
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There is only one RotS Anakin with separate states of mind, perhaps. Anakin "in the zone" is focusing his rage and well of emotions onto his opponent. He's technically using the dark side, but maintaining a clarity of mind by controlling the emotions. That means the state Anakin was in when he killed Dooku is what we see against Cin Drallig, for example. That's why he tools him. This is how Sith Lords fight; rather than their rage making them mindless berserkers a la Mustafar.
On Mustafar, Anakin was an emotional wreck. This was the first chance he got to actually think about what he's done (killing children, his Jedi brothers, and abandoning everything he knew up to that point). Notice how he is crying in that one scene? Anakin was absolutely mentally unstable by the time of his duel with Kenobi. He ends up hurting the one he turned to the dark side for, because his mind was warped at that point. Unlike against Count Dooku, he could not control himself.
Edit: With that, I'd say "Light side Anakin" is the same as number two, and "in the zone" is the same as "Dark side Anakin". What we saw against Obi-Wan had to do with the plot catching up to the character.
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Last edited by Advent on Sep 17th, 2009 at 04:27 AM
in any case i think RotS obiwan could definitely take this through sheer attrition. plus he knows anakin well enough to mindrape him into doing something stupid.
I based my ranking from my assessment of the RotS duels in the novel. IIRC, after Kenobi was downed by Dooku, "Moody Anakin" emerged and started rivaling Dooku, even winning. Then Dooku used Dun Moch and in Dooku's words he went from having the edge to losing. Then of course "tEh Z0ne Anakin" came about and defeated Dooku. Following this on Mustafar was Dark Side Anakin that was all crazy-pants.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Obi Wan is probably about evenly matched with Anakin as of ROTS, right?
But has he developed his power sufficiently do defeat his AOTC self and the AOTC Anakin?
Oh, and Anakin's power fluctuates a lot in the movie. Apparently his state of mind really affects him. But if "in the zone" Anakin is fighting like Sith do, then that must mean that sith are far more powerful than jedi, which doesn't seem to be always true.
__________________ Introduce a little government. Upset the established gangs, and everything becomes order...
Democracy is the very definition of awesome.
In raw strength and power? No. In saber skills? It depends on what one considers skill. Powerhouse expert on Djem So vs. the prodigy of Soresu. "This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object."
That's generalizing. We've seen Jedi more powerful than Sith and vice versa. Individuals.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: On cloud 9 in 7th heaven! I didn't
LOVE that Dark Knight line... so true for this instance.
The darkside is more powerful in the sense that it's a destructive force and all it's energies are being thrust outwad onto it's opponent. That being said, it's also a self destructing power so it can hurt the practitioner in the long run.
When Anakin uses his emotions and such, it's no different than what Luke teaches his NJO, so I don't know if we can call him DS Anakin. Yes he's using negative emotions, but he's funneling them into a positive outlet, i.e. fighting a Sith Lord. Which is, in essence, no different than Mace using Vaapad. He's not letting the darkside overtake him and control him, as he is in total control at all times.
It is that incarnation of Anakin that I believe can take almost anyone he faces. Not in force attacks, but he could likely overwhelm them before they could use the force.
1. ROTS Obi Wan The complete master of Soresu at this time, he is much better then his younger self and Anakin, he would hold both of them off until someone of the duo(most likely Anakin) would make a mistake and take him out and then proceed to defeat the other one.
2. ROTS Obi Wan is the most powerful, but none of the combatants have the offensive powers to easily defeat the other team. So the question is, could the duo together overcome ROTS Kenobis mastery of the Force? I would give a slighter edge to the duo.
3. ROTS Kenobi Wit his superior saber skills and being a smarter fighter, would win this.
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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: On cloud 9 in 7th heaven! I didn't
Sorry, can't agree. There's nothing to suggest that ROTS OB1 is more powerful than Anakin. By AOTC he was already stated as being able to do things that no one else could do. Being that OB1 was already getting older, I doubt he would grow in power that much in three years. More mastery of it, sure, but not more powerful. I don't see how a solo OB1 could win this. Anakin would have near endless power reserves and along with AoTC OB1, would eventually wear down his defenses.
Obi Wan would be like "ok...we take him together. you go in..." But Anakin wouldn't listen and would rush in and do a flip over Obi Wan, only to get chopped into pieces. AOTC Obi Wan would get tooled just like got tooled by Dooku, and then ROTS Obi Wan would get tooled by Yoda.
...
Seriously, if Obi Wan could block Grevious's 20 strikes a second, then he could probably block the two's strikes.
__________________ Introduce a little government. Upset the established gangs, and everything becomes order...
Democracy is the very definition of awesome.
Just for the record, we are talking about ROTS Kenobi and AOTC Anakin right?
Well would you agree that ROTS Anakin and Obi-Wan are about the same level in Force mastery, because whet they Forced pushed each other on Mustafar, they were about equal. And surely you would agree that ROTS Anakin>AOTC Anakin.
The problem with Obi-Wan he lacks offensive powers, just like Anakin and his younger version does, so the fight would go to sabers.
And i am not saying Obi-Wan would trash the duo immediately, but he would set it up, to first take one out and then proceed to take the the remaining person out as well. He would just wait for Anakin to make a mistake, because Anakin from AOTC is very reckless and head strong, he would make a mistake eventually.
Another advantage for ROTS Kenobi is, that he knows about everything about Anakin and his former self, whole the duo, doesn't know that much about the future Kenobi, not to mention he is much more experienced(3 years of war), calmed, smarter fighter...
And Anakins endless power reserve, is kind off a non factor, because Kenobi would force Anakin to make a mistake, he would utilize, before he would get tired.
Sure Anakin By AOTC was stated as being able to do things that no one else could do, but that is only compared to his peers, not generally, are you saying that people like Yoda and Mace, couldn't do what Anakin could?(except for Anakins flying ability).
How do you know he(Kenobi) didn't grow in power by a huge amount, i doubt he hit his maximum potential by AOTC?
Dooku improved by a considerable margin in his 70s, Mace made a huge leap from TPM to AOTC and he was older then Kenobi.
I would think that 3 years of constant fighting, would improve your skill considerably. Before he was doing just diplomatic missions and training and then he was fighting constantly to stays alive for 3 years.
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Worst case of ABC logic I have ever seen. You are claiming that ROTS Obi-Wan will win because he beat a guy, who beat Dooku, who beat the team. BUT ROTS Obi-Wan was thrashed by Dooku... SO clearly your "argument" fails.
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: On cloud 9 in 7th heaven! I didn't
Right, because Anakin would react the same way to OB1 as he did to a former Jedi turned Sith who just killed a bunch of Jedi... yea, that makes sense.
No. Just because they had a stalemate with ONE move doesn't mean they're equals. Per Lucas, at the time of ROTS, Anakin is the most powerful. Yes he lacks mastery and control at times, but he is still superior to OB1. Now, is ROTS OB1's mastery of the force greater than AOTC Anakin's? Sure. But that's also from a "Jedi" point of view. If Anakin were to give into his emotions like he did with the tuskens and later, Dooku, then I'm sure he could find some ways to launch some offensive force attacks.
I just think that together, they would overwhelm OB1. It won't be fast, but they will get him. Look how Anakin affected Dooku after their duel via his labored breathing. ROTS OB1 couldn't even do that. People tend to underestimate Anakin around here becase of Hayden's acting and Lucas' writing.
First, there was a 10 year gap for Dooku to improve, and Dooku, by nature, is quite a bit higher than OB1. There was only 3 years between AOTC and ROTS and we've seen nothing from Kenobi to suggest he's a beast with the force. Just some low grade telekinesis. Yes his saber skill enhanced, but to what extent? Couldn't be that much in three years compared to the first 10 that he started studying it after realizing that QGJ's form was lacking.
And yes, fighting for that long would make you better, but you can only go as far as your natural potential can take you. He didn't become THE master of Soresu during ROTS, which means he obtained that goal during the Clone Wars, which for us, could be a few weeks after AOTC for all we know. Even still, the power gap for OB1 wouldn't be that great or anywhere near the level of that of Anakin.
On a side note, Dooku had just quit the Order around the time of TPM and was said to have become a more powerful Sith once giving into the Darkside, which would attribute to his exponential power gain over that 10 year span. Well that and training under the most powerful Sith Lord ever...
Sep 13th, 2009 11:10 PM
