No way to tell. We have a rough idea of Revan's league, being the best of his era and all, but 'rough' isn't good enough especially when comparing such different eras.
Hm, well, I guess with the anti-darkside abilities of vapaad and Palpatine being the 'strongest ever' Sith, we could reasonably make the assumption that Mace'll have at least good odds against any Sith Lord.
Revan's done what? Beat some guy who's done... what?
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Lead an army against the Mandalorians. Was viewed as superior by Darth Traya, who we saw use the force to kill three Jedi Masters at once. Was called the greatest warrior of the age by Canderous Ordo, leader of the Mandalorians.
Beat Malak, who in turn beat Bastila Shan, the Jedi's choice for a team leader to send after them, had numerous fights in the comic back in his early days, and by the end of the war (years after the comic, but pre-fall) was considered one of the best swordspeople in the order. Malak also showed a pretty impressive array of force powers including Sith Sorcery.
Beat Bandon, who had been attributed to killing many Jedi.
So the entire galaxy seemed to consider these two pretty hot stuff, including by people who we've in turn seen do impressive stuff like Traya.
I don't know why this question keeps coming up. Not knowing as much as main character in the movie isn't the same as "Nothing," we probably know more on their era than we do Bane's! So while 'one of the most powerful within it' is semi-vague we do definitely have a good idea of his range.
We have substantiated, definable, quantitative, statistics about Bane and movie characters.
That Rakatan in the mind prison lead an army. Some captain in a security force on some planet fought the Mandalorians. Those feats mean nothing in terms of personal power and combative ability.
As for Revan beating Malak, Bastila, Mandalore etc., let me ask you: where do THEY stand in ability. And don't give me some general "this person was really good, this master liked this Jedi, this Sith was really strong" trite little crap. Those are just sayings. Where's the stats? Where's the comparisons to characters who DO have them? Almost everyone in KotOR is defined by drawings, game mechanics, and hearsay. It's not enough.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
What stats does Bane have that's not "he beat this person who was really good, this master said X about him, etc.?"
That's a serious question. The only comparison we have of him is how he compared to other people of his time too, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by 'stats' which covers Bane but not Revan.
FMV/Scripted events did happen in plot and aren't game mechanics, we see other Jedi masters (some of whom show up in the games) in the comics, etc..
With Bane we have concrete informations about what, exactly, Kas'im has done. Same with Raskta and Kopecz. They are knowns. Bane is compared with known quantities.
With Revan we have feweer concrete informations about what, exactly, his contemporarieds did. We know he was better than Malak but we don't know what that means. Is Malak impressive? Why?
The best answer I can see from you is that Malak is impressive because he was better than the rest of the Sith at the time. (This is the total "you" and it includes Legend as well.) However, that simply doesn't mean anything. We don't know if those other Sith were all Johun Othone level of power.
The same criticism applies to using Kreia as a benchmark. Revan impressed Kreia. Yes. But what do we know about Kreia? The best we can say is taht she is more powerful than three unknown Jedi Masters, none of whom were noted as particularly powerful on the grand scheme of things. Being better than them doesnt make Kreia particularly impressive.
I could continue but I think we've established the point. You've made your claim ("Reavn is powerful") and supplied your evidence ("[/i]these people were less powerful than him[/i]") but you've left out the warrant-- the reason that the evidence is important. So what? These people are less powerful than him. If we dont have a way of evaluating these people (and I assure you we do not) then they arent very effective as evidence.
Sorry for the spelling, it is after four thirty and I did not use the bckspace key at all.
Force-killing three Jedi council members at once is a pretty impressive thing, even with just background members.
Note, said council members do have history and have done stuff and weren't just background masters- Vrook lead the charge against the Conclave that framed Zayne and got some combat in there for example.
But, how does those arguments not apply equally as much to Bane?
Sure, he fought Kas'im, how do we know everyone Kas'im fought wasn't chumps and all the other Sith and Jedi around didn't just suck even more? We know what they did, but only from people of the same era, without any stronger reason that we should see it matter than the KotoR. The only three Sith we really have any detail on and reason to consider strong are Kaan, Kas'im, and Bane, and the only reason we do so is because of how they compare to each other and beating up a bunch of no-name no-featers.
We don't have a way to evaluate any of these people other than how they compare to people of the same era, period, with very rare exception. People from KotoR do stuff just as much as people from Bane's era do stuff, after all.
And heck, for someone to indicate how powerful Revan was, how about Darth Bane? It was Revan's holocron that taught him the dark side knowledge to surpass all of his follow Sith and Bane practically idolized him for it.
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Mace Windu vs. Darth Revan
May 8th, 2010 05:30 PM
