This is such a conspiracy that Darth Power has made.
I let other members decide this.
So what's more impressive, beating Dooku who was out of Anakin's league, or beating Sidious who was out of Windu's league, both by virtue of being in a certain mindset.
__________________ "Compounding these trickster aspects, the Joker ethos is verbally explicated as such by his psychiatrist, who describes his madness as "super-sanity." Where "sanity" previously suggested acquiescence with cultural codes, the addition of "super" implies that this common "sanity" has been replaced by a superior form, in which perception and processing are completely ungoverned and unconstrained"
If I were only interested in opinion I would have made a poll. Please explain. Anakin Skywalker beating Mace Windu is a hard pill to swallow. I've actually argued for Anakin in the past, but then I read ROTS. I don't mind being corrected, I'm very open-minded, I just feel DP hasn't given me enough to cement Anakin as a superior combatant to Windu simply because he beat Dooku, who does not have Vapaad and does not possess the Shatterpoint ability.
Through Vapaad, Windu feeds off of the intensity of his opponent, and is able to go as far as Sidious' power level, which is greater than Zonakin's, and on even grounds with Sidious in particular is shatterpoint allowed him to knock the lightsaber out of the "greatest Sith's" hands. This is why my conclusion is that Windu spanks Zonakin.
__________________ "Compounding these trickster aspects, the Joker ethos is verbally explicated as such by his psychiatrist, who describes his madness as "super-sanity." Where "sanity" previously suggested acquiescence with cultural codes, the addition of "super" implies that this common "sanity" has been replaced by a superior form, in which perception and processing are completely ungoverned and unconstrained"
One could assert Windu made a tiring Sidious look like a "complete joke". Granted, I'd assume Windu taking Sidious on alone might have changed things as Windu would have less of the Sith's rage and emotions to draw on, but, frankly, I'm awed by the fact that Windu's meddle allowed him to go as far as Sidious - Zonakin doesn't win here. Anakin's powers - despite their potential - are far less developed than Windu's or Dooku's. Greater when drawing on a calm rage (the zone), perhaps, but nothing next to the levels in which Windu was pushed to against Sidious. Nothing.
__________________ "Compounding these trickster aspects, the Joker ethos is verbally explicated as such by his psychiatrist, who describes his madness as "super-sanity." Where "sanity" previously suggested acquiescence with cultural codes, the addition of "super" implies that this common "sanity" has been replaced by a superior form, in which perception and processing are completely ungoverned and unconstrained"
Last edited by KillaKassara on Oct 4th, 2013 at 03:14 AM
You should read the RotS novelization--it's where we derive the "z0ne" from. What Anakin does to Dooku in a manner of seconds, just moments after Dooku was comfortably toying with him, is ridiculous. It's not a "calm rage", it's a "zone" unique to Anakin in that one single moment.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
It's a calm rage comparable to that of which Darth Malgus experienced in the Revan series.
Moreover, it was a controlled rage, as opposed to uncontrolled like when he fought Obi-Wan.
And it did not put him above Sidious, so it is not above Windu's ability to match in a fight and overcome at a critical moment with the shatterpoint charism, if you can prove that it did than there ya go.
__________________ "Compounding these trickster aspects, the Joker ethos is verbally explicated as such by his psychiatrist, who describes his madness as "super-sanity." Where "sanity" previously suggested acquiescence with cultural codes, the addition of "super" implies that this common "sanity" has been replaced by a superior form, in which perception and processing are completely ungoverned and unconstrained"
Last edited by KillaKassara on Oct 4th, 2013 at 05:12 AM
Mace's Shatterpoint revealed Palpatine's weakness--Anakin. His perspective narration says that, even submerged in Vaapad, the fight would have gone on forever if not for Shatterpoint. Palpatine's fear was provoked when Anakin entered the room, something Mace's Shatterpoint ability revealed, and what he used to his advantage to leverage a disarming maneuver. Shatterpoint isn't some magic KO attack he can throw at his opponents.
That weakness is something Zone Anakin doesn't have. That's why we've labeled him as such. He's without fear, without hesitation:
"...all his fears and all his doubts shrivel in to flame."
"...the "terror and rage are out there, in the fight instead of in his head, and Anakin's mind is as clear as a crystal bell."
And he did make Dooku look like a complete joke:
"Dooku's decades of combat experience are irrelevant. His mastery of swordplay is useless... Even his knowledge of the Force has become a joke."
Zone Anakin never reemerged after that scene, and even the variation that fought Obi-Wan on Mustafar pales in comparison. There's a reason we keep saying that Zonakin stomps.
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
Last edited by Lord Lucien on Oct 4th, 2013 at 05:38 AM
Lol yes Zone Anakin is my own personal conspiracy.
Edit- To add to what Lucien's quoted I'll provide extracts from the ROTS novel later which prove the rage that empowered Sith Anakin was no where near as powerful as the rage which empowered Zone Anakin.
Last edited by Darth Thor on Oct 4th, 2013 at 11:04 AM
There seems to be some confusion in the other thread regarding ZonAkin which I'll just address here now.
People are claiming that Skywalker's fear makes him stronger due to this being the first paragraph of the Death of Count Dooku chapter in the ROTS novel:
"A Starbust of clarity blossoms within Anakin Skywalker's mind, when he says to himself, Oh. I get it, now and discovers that the fear within his heart can be a weapon, too."
Now just a page before this fear clearly hinders his performance:
"but Skywalker had lost his edge; a simple taunt was all that had been required to shift the focus of his attention from winning the fight to controlling his own emotions. The angrier he got, the more afraid he became, and the fear fed his anger in turn;"
^So for fear to aid him he clearly needs that clarity of mind anyway. And can't be in a state where he's "fighting to control his own emotions."
But how does Fear make him more powerful anyway? By being a path to anger and fury, which is the real weapon of the darkside (when not hindered by internal conflict).
We know this from Yoda's line in TPM "Fear is a path to the Darkside. Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hate, Hate leads to suffering."
And the ROTS novel goes onto say about "the fear" Zone Anakin is using:
"And all for nothing, because a nuclear flame has consumed Anakin Skywalker's Jedi restraint, and fear becomes fury without effort, and fury is a blade that makes his lightsaber into a toy."
^So it's his fury that's powering him, and he's actually just eliminating his Fear by replacing it with fury. Which is made even more clear with this line:
"But Palpatine's words rage is your weapon have given Anakin permission to unseal the shielding around his furnace heart, and all his fears and all his doubts shrivel in it's flame."
It's then made clear that his Zone state is not unleashing anger in a "mindless state":
"On Aargonar, on Jabiim in the Tusken camp on Tatooine, that smoke had clouded his mind, had blinded him and left him flailing in the dark, a mindless machine of slaughter;but here, now, within this ship, this microscopic cell of life in the infinite sterile desert of space, his firewalls have opened so that the terror and rage are out there, in the fight instead of in his head, and Anakin's mind is clear as a crystal bell."
^ So in his Zone state there's no internal conflict. His mind is as clear as a Crystal Bell, and he uses fury, with the terror and rage being "In the fight," instead of "in his head."
Then after he becomes Vader, he thinks he's eliminated all his fear (because even though fear is a path to the darkside, it's not in and of itself a weapon, and does not do Skywalker or Vader any good).
But then just before his fight with Kenobi(after killing the sepratists), he feels the fear in his head once more, deep rooted into him, which he doesn't want, because it does him no good. It only hinders him. And by a large amount, judging by how Dooku handled him for a moment after putting Fear and Doubts back into his head.
Last edited by Darth Thor on Oct 8th, 2013 at 09:55 PM
zone anakin has weakness, just rewatch the entire CW....it's there
I know denial is a ugly thing ain't it?
The only thing zone anakin stumped was tusken raiders and Dooku...
The zone is still fuel for Vaapad...so it doesn't matter if he's zone or sith...Mace still wins....
It'd be a brutal fight, but even Zonakin is not unstoppable. Since Mace is more comfortable matching physical, hard contact types than Dooku, he wouldn't be as overwhelmed by Anakin's force strength, his Vaapad would actually welcome the superior force of Zonakin.
Hard one to predict I say it's a 50/50 with victory going to whoever is more cunning in the clutch.
__________________
Iboga chose not to fight, to allow himself to evolve. He had the wisdom to abandon the actions of war when he knew they would no longer serve him.
What weakness? recklessness....
each battle we see him diving head first into everything bearly coming out the victor.
either Obi Wan saves him from his recklessness or Ahsoka or Rex or one of the masters...
His emotions alone will be enough fuel for Vaapad.
Sids FL wasn't beyond Vaapad maybe for Yoda...which it was...
Vaapad not so much.....he didn't blast Mace's light saber out his hands...he couldn't...
not without killing himself with his own FL.....and we kno that ain't happening...
Why did you think he stopped his FL assault ?
fatigue is one
he couldn't penetrate through Mace's defense is another.
could be if he intensified it enough he would have killed himself when Mace was reflecting
Sids FL back at him through Vaapad....
What saved Sids was Anakin...
one on one Sids would have been dead.....
His speed would have killed Anakin....
this zone is nothing but controlled rage...nothing more..
Mace has a zone...too but its not called a zone...it's called battle mind....
And this Battle Mind stomps your Zone all day.....any day...
he barely beat Bariss....which is also saying alot....about this zone of yours...
Seems to me Bariss was more in the zone than Anakin was.....
limits? yeah maybe it does but FL isn't it.....especially when it was bred to Fight Sith w/FP
like FL?
So my question...to your zone is still....how many blades do you see?
Oct 4th, 2013 01:20 AM
